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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 3, 2016 16:48:43 GMT -5
The bad part is that they get shot down and reincarnate into another anti-hunting organization. They wont quit until they get what they want or the DNR/NRC says "ENOUGH! This is the way it is going to be."
I can tell you they are not going to get what they want.
I can't tell you we will get what we want.
But what the hey, change does a body good, right?
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Post by bucksnbows on Feb 3, 2016 18:11:41 GMT -5
Here is my take on aprs.....
There were 3 proposals.
1 passed.
2 failed.
The 2 failed posts showed that more than 50% of surveyed hunters were in favor but short of the required 66%.
That is the system and all 3 showed where we stand on the topic for those areas.
The re survey for the NW12 will show how well liked they were the past 5 years or not.
That is the system.
All 3 surveys show the direction the mindset in Michigan hunters is heading.
The younger generation are not as interested in shooting little bucks as maybe in the past.
Social media, hunting shows and just being brought up in today's " hunting industry " environment has changed the way our youth view hunting.
Give the same failed proposal areas another shot in a few more years I bet they pass.
You caneed advocate voluntary but today's 20 somethings don't want to wait and like we were back in our 20s......we know it all.
The biggest issue is cwd. Disease management should over take buck management.
Until we get a better idea of how wide spread cwd is I think we should postpone any new apr areas until the dnr thinks they have it contained or at least know how far it has spread.
As for all the other arguments, like the survey, or wording, or blah blah blah.
It's not even worth fighting about.
There is a system in place. Hunters can use it.
I will always listen more closely to what the dnr recommends than I will to some real estate guy or biochemist says.
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Post by bucksnbows on Feb 3, 2016 18:16:31 GMT -5
Maybe I would converse more with yall but after reading how this site's mods are editing others posts....
No need to put myself into that situation.
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Post by bucksnbows on Feb 3, 2016 18:25:24 GMT -5
Doehead, I replied to the eminent doctor with something close to this. If anyone feels that the DNR is as accurate or is as close to being as accurate as their doctor, then I would suggest finding a new medical provider. A doctor being no more accurate than the DNR is a very scary thought. There seems to be a little debate between restriction group members, unless this very gray winter weather is finally getting to me, that centers around whether their goal is to advance a buck one year or whether it is to grow older mature bucks. Lately the illustrious tornado jim resounds with the latter claim while at least two or more of his disciples plead the case of the former. I have yet to see that "mandated regulations" have provided either one to the deer herd. While some of the proclaimed gospel data being given says that fewer younger bucks are killed and that the level of older bucks has pretty much sustained itself, none of that data proves that more younger bucks "survived" than prior to the regulations. Nor did that data prove that any surviving bucks stayed in the regulated area without dispersing. Some of that data seems to indicate the population of deer, especially does, was lowered. If that is true, the herd may be far less able to recover from negative influences. Does any negligible benefit justify such a cost? Whatever the ongoing debate is or is not, the data or this supposed trial has proven nothing. This is largely due to the fact that no evidence was sought during the trial to substantiate anything. No parameters for analysis were established to demonstrate anything. It has simply been an extended period of time for the regulators to gain more hand clapping and pats on the back which collectively PROVES NOTHING. Ridge the only goal of aprs is ......Wait for it... Protect at least 50% of the yearling bucks. Why? Because they will grow at the least 1 year older and have bigger antlers than the year before. Will they create big bucks......yes at least more of them. Will hunters be killing 130" 8 points......most of them no. A few yes. Can we a tribute them to aprs? Maybe a few. In the end though hunters should see more bucks. And in the end more bucks will live to be 2 with aprs than without. It is that simple. No need for anyone to sugar coat them. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 3, 2016 19:09:51 GMT -5
"If the majority of hunters truly want change, it shouldn't be needed." OOPS, wrong side! Try this.
"Mandatory antler restrictions are only designed to protect half of 1 1/2 yr old deer."
We all know that is purportless doublespeak. In otherwords, "bull".
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Post by daappleknocker on Feb 4, 2016 7:38:36 GMT -5
I will repeat,
"No Michigan deer hunter should ever be denied putting venison in the freezer for the promise of putting antlers on the wall, ever!"
I believe more Michigan deer hunters will eventually revolt when resource populations continue to decline because of the effect of MAR's, namely overharvest of does. The mantra of, "you want venison, shoot a doe" is destroying deer hunting in many areas of Michigan and spreading.
As CWD spreads across the state, hopefully the MDNR will come to their senses and revoke ALL MAR's for the protection of the resource. The NRC could and should do it now but they won't because of their close relationships with the MDNR and the special interest MAR's groups.
Just my humble opinion based on the facts. |
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Post by daappleknocker on Feb 4, 2016 9:19:24 GMT -5
To bnb and fnf;
From your post above I see that you accept the survey process supporting the advancement of MAR's. All that I have to say about that is this,
"Any hunter who would accept a compromised, manipulated and therefore corrupted survey process because it advances an agenda that brings them personal gain at the expense of others, lacks ethics, integrity and character."
Many of these hunters delighted in the passage of these corrupt surveys, knowing full well of the manipulation responsible for their success. Many others like ostriches and yourselves, support them without knowing the facts, because of greed. But, when or should I say if the facts are revealed you can say, "I was not aware", again lacking ethics, integrity and character.
I have NEVER advocated for anything because it would benefit me personally. My concern for the wildlife resource has always been my main objective. |
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 11:13:06 GMT -5
Curtis, are you seriously questioning my character over a deer survey? One that I didn't develop. A process that, unlike you, I had no hand in creating. Laughable. Give me a break. You want productive debate, yet come on here with this?
I'm ok with the results of the survey. Some pass, some dont. None of you had any problems with them until they started to pass. That has everything to do with hunter mindset. Not some conspiracy theory about collusion, impropriety, or bad survey questions.
If they don't pass moving forward, I'm ok with that too.
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 11:20:18 GMT -5
....I have NEVER advocated for anything because it would benefit me personally. My concern for the wildlife resource has always been my main objective. That is complete BS. You opened your statement touting that anything that prevents meat in your freezer is bad. That's all you're concerned about, period. Maybe, just maybe, you might consider that getting meat in the freezer isn't the best choice for the resource all of the time. Our natural resources shouldn't be the relegated to someone's own personal grocery store. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 4, 2016 12:03:17 GMT -5
Mounts on the wall......that feeds a lot of people.
What a waste. Kill some animal and have its skin placed on a plastic form. Just so you can have a reminder of your successful bloodbath?
How barbaric.
Our natural resources should not be abuse in such a manner.
We hunt for meat, no self-serving there.
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 4, 2016 12:13:19 GMT -5
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 12:18:52 GMT -5
Mounts on the wall......that feeds a lot of people. What a waste. Kill some animal and have its skin placed on a plastic form. Just so you can have a reminder of your successful bloodbath? How barbaric. Do you do that with your grandparents when they die? Our natural resources should not be abuse in such a manner. We hunt for meat, no self-serving there. Never, not once, did I say I hunted for antlers only. I went so far as to post multiple quotes from Fred Bear regarding such. The hunting experience is greater than meat or antlers for me. It should be for you as well. FYI.....The last 8 bucks I shot weighed over 180 lbs dressed each. All were eaten. All were fantastic. None were wasted. Only 2 of them are on my wall. So, please, spare us all the simpleton,snide, and completely eroneous assumptions and statements. Typical when your argument can't stand on its own merit. |
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 12:33:30 GMT -5
Typical comment from you. FYI...regarding character. I donate part of my income to homeless shelters for vets as well as animal shelters looking to adopt unwanted dogs. As a Critical Care, Emergency and Trauma RN, I save lives every single day I go to work. Ever precordial thump a man as you're wheeling him down a hallway to cath lab while waiting for the defibrillator to charge? Ever have to tell the wife of 65 years that, regretfully, all attempts to save her husband failed? Ever have to console the brand new mom of 2 weeks that unfortunately, after 3 hours of CPR, we were unable to save her newborn. These people are from all walks of life. Some of them even convicted felons, and yes, even angry old men like you who do nothing but complain. All of this being completely irrelevant to a discussion regarding not being able to kill a small buck. So sir, you can take your character attacks against me and keep them to yourself. You know nothing about me. |
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Post by daappleknocker on Feb 4, 2016 14:37:17 GMT -5
F-n-F,
The way you twist words to support your opinions you could be Jim Brauker, are you?
I am NOT questioning your character. I am saying that if you support and defend corruption, even by just burying your head in the sand to appease your conscience, you have no ethics, integrity or character, on this issue. No question about it.
My statement, "I have never advocated for anything because it would benefit me personally", is NOT B.S. as you stated. You are correct that I have never considered "that getting meat in the freezer isn't the best choice for the resource". As a student of the Christian religion, I know it is the ONLY choice for the resource. It has been the ONLY choice for hunters since Noah stepped out of the ark and God told him in Genesis 9 verses 2 and 3, "Every moving animal that is alive may serve as FOOD for you." If you support MAR's you go against God's intent for the living creatures, as well deny your fellow hunters their God given right.
Before you bring up the new testament law of obeying Caesar's laws, when these laws (or hunting regulations) are the result of a corrupt process and manipulated for the minority, I believe in exposing the corruption and will go as far as promoting civil disobedience. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 4, 2016 15:24:45 GMT -5
Typical comment from you. FYI...regarding character. I donate part of my income to homeless shelters for vets as well as animal shelters looking to adopt unwanted dogs. As a Critical Care, Emergency and Trauma RN, I save lives every single day I go to work. Ever precordial thump a man as you're wheeling him down a hallway to cath lab while waiting for the defibrillator to charge? Ever have to tell the wife of 65 years that, regretfully, all attempts to save her husband failed? Ever have to console the brand new mom of 2 weeks that unfortunately, after 3 hours of CPR, we were unable to save her newborn. These people are from all walks of life. Some of them even convicted felons, and yes, even angry old men like you who do nothing but complain. All of this being completely irrelevant to a discussion regarding not being able to kill a small buck. So sir, you can take your character attacks against me and shove them straight up your ###. You nothing about me. Said the anonymous internet tough guy. You have no credibility on this website, Mr Good Guy. You are a guest here and I am sure someone will be along to edit the profanity from your post shortly. You won't get any brownie points for making up a fancy career either, everyone has a story, some just stink is all. EDITOR'S NOTE - HIS CAREER IS QUITE REAL AND NOT MADE UP. |
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 16:22:45 GMT -5
Dale, I havent made anything up. My occupation has been common knowledge in my forum profiles for 5+ years. I don't need any validation of my career from any poster on an Internet forum, and most certainly not you. My validation comes when I get to see those I've taken care of walk out of the hospital.
The point of the entire post was based solely upon you attacking my character, when you know absolutely zero about me. You just cant help it. I'm no more anonymous on here than you or many other members are.
I lived up to my end of the deal that I proposed to you. You chose not to. So here we are again.
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 16:31:15 GMT -5
F-n-F,
The way you twist words to support your opinions you could be Jim Brauker, are you?
I am NOT questioning your character. I am saying that if you support and defend corruption, even by just burying your head in the sand to appease your conscience, you have no ethics, integrity or character, on this issue. No question about it.
My statement, "I have never advocated for anything because it would benefit me personally", is NOT B.S. as you stated. You are correct that I have never considered "that getting meat in the freezer isn't the best choice for the resource". As a student of the Christian religion, I know it is the ONLY choice for the resource. It has been the ONLY choice for hunters since Noah stepped out of the ark and God told him in Genesis 9 verses 2 and 3, "Every moving animal that is alive may serve as FOOD for you." If you support MAR's you go against God's intent for the living creatures, as well deny your fellow hunters their God given right.
Before you bring up the new testament law of obeying Caesar's laws, when these laws (or hunting regulations) are the result of a corrupt process and manipulated for the minority, I believe in exposing the corruption and will go as far as promoting civil disobedience. I twisted nothing. You posted that anyone who believes in the surveys lack character, because in YOUR opinion they were flawed, thus implying that I lack character. Because of that, I responded. Yes, I believed in the results of the surveys and still do. Both Pass, and fail. It is what it is. As to the rest of the rambling on about meat, bible, etc....All I stated was hunting and our resources are more important to me than just meat, and should be. Sorry you disagree. For the record, I am absolutely not Jim Brauker. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 4, 2016 16:52:33 GMT -5
What's this thread about again? That comment is grounds for banning Mr. Better be careful. You have zero credibility IMHO. Ramble on. |
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 16:56:14 GMT -5
That comment is grounds for banning Mr. Better be careful. That was humor. Not an attack. Maybe that's the problem. You don't know/understand the difference. |
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 17:07:09 GMT -5
That comment is grounds for banning Mr. Better be careful. You have zero credibility IMHO. Ramble on. Credibility? Ha, ha. Whatever you say. Have Ridge contact me. I'll show you my "credibility". I warn you though. You will end up with egg on your face. He and I have actually discussed this same issue and what I do for a living, in the past. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 4, 2016 17:20:25 GMT -5
You have zero credibility IMHO. Ramble on. Credibility? Ha, ha. Whatever you say. Have Ridge contact me. I'll show you my "credibility". I warn you though. You will end up with egg on your face. He and I have actually discussed this same issue and what I do for a living, in the past. I could care less what you claim to do. You have ZERO credibility with me. You think you are a saint because you have a job in the medical field? If it is so hard on you psychologically, you should quit. Many do. Your attitude doesn't become you. |
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 17:46:48 GMT -5
Credibility? Ha, ha. Whatever you say. Have Ridge contact me. I'll show you my "credibility". I warn you though. You will end up with egg on your face. He and I have actually discussed this same issue and what I do for a living, in the past. I could care less what you claim to do. You have ZERO credibility with me. You think you are a saint because you have a job in the medical field? If it is so hard on you psychologically, you should quit. Many do. Your attitude doesn't become you. Yep, just a nurse. The next time you're in the hospital sick or dying, please make sure to say that same thing to the nurse taking care of you. Ha, ha. My intolerance for your ignorance and attacks is not related, in any way, to my job. I love my job. Even when I take care of inconsiderate clueless ##### like you. Have a good day. |
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 18:07:06 GMT -5
There are best practices and guidelines in Healthcare that guide day to day patient care. In my area of expertise, those guidelines are used by our nursing assessment of need based upon patient condition, vital signs, labs, vent settings, arterial line pressures, But hey, if it makes you feel good to think youre attacking me in some way....think what you want. It's wrong, much like the rest of your assumptions. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 4, 2016 18:37:24 GMT -5
You have ZERO credibility in my eyes. I could care less what you do, who you debate, for whatever topic.
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Post by bucksnbows on Feb 4, 2016 19:22:34 GMT -5
Anyway.
Curtis I don't know what to tell ya.
I see no flaws in the system worth my time.
The proposals failed....life goes on.
Till next time boys......
Peace
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 4, 2016 19:48:59 GMT -5
Anyway. Curtis I don't know what to tell ya. I see no flaws in the system worth my time. The proposals failed....life goes on. Till next time boys...... Peace Sorry Tom, I just act this way because I have had enough of the BS. But should I just lay over and take it right? I just treat people the way they deserve to be treated. I have the utmost respect for people in the medical profession. Just not all. As far as flaws in the system, this has been hammered over and over again. The NW12 survey was flawed due to prejudicial language. The Lpdmi proposals were devoid of any unnecessary statements, making them more neutral. Simple. But it's not worth your time |
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 20:20:39 GMT -5
....I just treat people the way they deserve to be treated. Likewise. Care to agree to disagree and move on or do you wish to continue? I give what I get. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 4, 2016 20:29:15 GMT -5
For a man that claims to have a college degree, you certainly are vacuous.
No credibility, none whatsoever.
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Post by daappleknocker on Feb 4, 2016 20:46:45 GMT -5
For the record, I didn't like the "just a nurse" comment either. I know too many excellent nurses, men and women to allow that statement. I think an apology is in order. For the record, I would love to have a nurse like F-n-F take care of me in a hospital. |
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Post by field-n-feathers on Feb 4, 2016 21:00:41 GMT -5
For the record, I didn't like the "just a nurse" comment either. I know too many excellent nurses, men and women to allow that statement. I think an apology is in order. For the record, I would love to have a nurse like F-n-F take care of me in a hospital. Thank you sir. |
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