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Post by ridge on Dec 11, 2015 18:47:01 GMT -5
Thank you for the clarification. I can be a little slow!
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 11, 2015 19:00:11 GMT -5
There is so much more to the hunting experience than what goes on the wall, or into a freezer. Most, if not all, of those sportsmen you choose to attack would agree. I never said there wasn't. I said all they see is one part of a deers body. Some people see the whole deer and are satisfied taking one no matter what is on top. Nothing wrong with that. Legally or biologically. No, actually you said......"All that these so called sportsman see......". This statement is blatantly false. It is, however, your misrepresentation of them simply because you disagree with their view on APR's. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 11, 2015 21:49:26 GMT -5
I can;t get one past you. eh?
All this because I say that when someone says the majority is for more regulations, they refer to the wrong survey and are blatantly wrong.
They go by the results of the wrong survey. The NW12 was a very flawed process. The two Lpdmi surveys were not true random surveys. They were stratified random surveys.
What is a stratified random sample?
stratified random sample. a random sample of a population in which the population is first divided into distinct subpopulations, or strata, and random samples are then taken separately from each stratum.
My God, I got to read the lpdmi surveys before the final draft and had a say in the final wording. I know a little bit about the process.
So you see, the only true representation of what the majority is the MI/DNR hunter satisfaction surveys.
What do they say?
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 12, 2015 6:14:34 GMT -5
I'm not going to get into another debate over the validity of the surveys. We will just have to see moving forward. The re-survey in a few years will tell us.
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 12, 2015 17:41:23 GMT -5
Exactly.
The first survey was pushed through with somewhat of a hush.
Now everyone knows about them.
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Post by yesdeer on Dec 12, 2015 19:20:52 GMT -5
Wow, I cannot believe how bull headed some of these MAPR supporters are, oh, wait, yes I can...seen it in action personally. Must be some good kool-aid down there....
I don't know about anyone else but I have yet to see a buck behind every tree, shoot I would be happy to see a deer in a field up here, it's a rare sight around here.
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 13, 2015 5:57:17 GMT -5
Wow, I cannot believe how bull headed some of these MAPR supporters are, oh, wait, yes I can...seen it in action personally. Must be some good kool-aid down there.... I don't know about anyone else but I have yet to see a buck behind every tree, shoot I would be happy to see a deer in a field up here, it's a rare sight around here. But a larger percentage are mature deer, so enjoy your hunting new improved hunting experience. It's what you were promised. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 13, 2015 22:35:15 GMT -5
Wow, I cannot believe how bull headed some of these MAPR supporters are, oh, wait, yes I can...seen it in action personally. Must be some good kool-aid down there.... I don't know about anyone else but I have yet to see a buck behind every tree, shoot I would be happy to see a deer in a field up here, it's a rare sight around here. Nobody that I know of who supported APR's, or were part of the sponsoring group, ever promised such a thing. That's a strawman brought up by a few of those opposed to APR's. |
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Post by yesdeer on Dec 14, 2015 11:28:24 GMT -5
Wow, I cannot believe how bull headed some of these MAPR supporters are, oh, wait, yes I can...seen it in action personally. Â Must be some good kool-aid down there.... I don't know about anyone else but I have yet to see a buck behind every tree, shoot I would be happy to see a deer in a field up here, it's a rare sight around here. Nobody that I know of who supported APR's, or were part of the sponsoring group, ever promised such a thing. That's a strawman brought up by a few of those opposed to APR's. Wow, you must have drank that kool-aid too! This isn't a strawman, it was from the tin men standing out in there comparing your sizes to see which one is the better man...put them away and zip it up. Unless your in the red light district, size doesn't put food on the table. And before you want me to provide a quoted source, I attended enough meetings to know that it was the implied result even if it wasn't exactly worded that way. |
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Post by jimmer on Dec 14, 2015 12:21:04 GMT -5
Yep it is all a measuring contest. You got jim brauker the king of MARs on social beating up on hunters that are disabled claiming how much better he is at hunting than them . What an arrogant looser !  It seems the MARs movement draws those kind of people to their side  |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 14, 2015 12:39:28 GMT -5
Nobody that I know of who supported APR's, or were part of the sponsoring group, ever promised such a thing. That's a strawman brought up by a few of those opposed to APR's. Wow, you must have drank that kool-aid too! This isn't a strawman, it was from the tin men standing out in there comparing your sizes to see which one is the better man...put them away and zip it up. Unless your in the red light district, size doesn't put food on the table. And before you want me to provide a quoted source, I attended enough meetings to know that it was the implied result even if it wasn't exactly worded that way. Nope, sorry. That is blatantly false. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 14, 2015 12:44:24 GMT -5
Yep it is all a measuring contest. You got jim brauker the king of MARs on social beating up on hunters that are disabled claiming how much better he is at hunting than them . What an arrogant looser ! It seems the MARs movement draws those kind of people to their side Seriously? Belittling disabled hunters? BS......Jim Brauker has done no such thing. |
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Post by hartman756 on Dec 14, 2015 13:47:48 GMT -5
UMMMM , have you looked at MS lately ? He (jim brauker) seems to think it is necessary to prove to the world he can hunt better than someone that is disabled and prove it by posting decades old pic of him with a deer from the area that hunter hunts.
OPEN YOUR EYES FF |
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Post by yesdeer on Dec 14, 2015 13:59:55 GMT -5
UMMMM , have you looked at MS lately ? He (jim brauker) seems to think it is necessary to prove to the world he can hunt better than someone that is disabled and prove it by posting decades old pic of him with a deer from the area that hunter hunts.
OPEN YOUR EYES FF He can't open his eyes, he drank the kool-aid... You can't expect him to rat out his almighty glorious JB. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 14, 2015 14:08:53 GMT -5
PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!! He obviously can't fathom anyone elses take on hunting, so just feel sorry for him and move along. Strawman?  ? Get with it man that cliche is old. Get out there and talk to some real people, not your buds. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 14, 2015 15:45:55 GMT -5
UMMMM , have you looked at MS lately ? He (jim brauker) seems to think it is necessary to prove to the world he can hunt better than someone that is disabled and prove it by posting decades old pic of him with a deer from the area that hunter hunts.
OPEN YOUR EYES FF He can't open his eyes, he drank the kool-aid... You can't expect him to rat out his almighty glorious JB. Sorry to disappoint you, but JB is not glorious nor my idol. I just happen to agree with most of what he says as its based upon actual tangible and measurable fact. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 14, 2015 16:40:12 GMT -5
UMMMM , have you looked at MS lately ? He (jim brauker) seems to think it is necessary to prove to the world he can hunt better than someone that is disabled and prove it by posting decades old pic of him with a deer from the area that hunter hunts.
OPEN YOUR EYES FF Is this what you guys are calling belittling the disabled? What a gigantic stretch it takes to come to that conclusion. It was a discussion related to the statement made by Waif that it's so much easier to harvest a "trophy" on private land and how it relates to public land being more difficult. From MSF..... "I actually found state land pretty easy to hunt back when I lived in Clare county in the late 70s. Prior to moving there and starting to hunt state forest, I hunted private land in Branch County MI and Steuben County IN and was never able to connect with a buck. First day I every hunted state land I killed my first buck within 3 hours (no pic, half racked with 4 on one side). I think your stance is that it is easy to have consistent success on private land compared to state land is way off base. It is a fact that 2/3rds of people who hunt private each year do not even get a buck let alone a trophy. In the two counties I hunt, private land pressure is around 20 hunters per square mile. It takes massive effort to consistently kill a book buck on most private land. It is not easy by any stretch of the imagination. What you do with this stance is foster the us and them attitude that creates so much division among hunters. I know a number of hunters who are consistently successful at killing big bucks on state land. State land buck." - Jim Brauker |
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Post by hartman756 on Dec 14, 2015 17:34:48 GMT -5
First I don't see where any one said "belittling " and second you do realize that Steve went through and removed a bunch of posts from several of those threads!
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 14, 2015 18:19:03 GMT -5
First I don't see where any one said "belittling " and second you do realize that Steve went through and removed a bunch of posts from several of those threads! No, Hartman, I don't. I no longer follow many of the conversations like I used to. I'll give you the belittling mistake. Let me rephrase.....beating up on disabled hunters. Regardless, both claims are absurd. Show me the proof. I've never seen it, nor been witness to it. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 14, 2015 19:40:47 GMT -5
First I don't see where any one said "belittling " and second you do realize that Steve went through and removed a bunch of posts from several of those threads! No, Hartman, I don't. I no longer follow many of the conversations like I used to. I'll give you the belittling mistake. Let me rephrase.....beating up on disabled hunters. Regardless, both claims are absurd. Show me the proof. I've never seen it, nor been witness to it.  ! Who the "F" do you think you are? You don't follow what? What is this website all about? You insist on being heard on here, but you have to ask for proof of what someone on another website said or didn't say? I will give you credit, you know how to pull chains. You might start looking how to set up a VPN so you can go back to MSF and start life over again. You are using this one up fast. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 14, 2015 20:14:54 GMT -5
No, Hartman, I don't. I no longer follow many of the conversations like I used to. I'll give you the belittling mistake. Let me rephrase.....beating up on disabled hunters. Regardless, both claims are absurd. Show me the proof. I've never seen it, nor been witness to it. ! Who the "F" do you think you are? You don't follow what? What is this website all about? You insist on being heard on here, but you have to ask for proof of what someone on another website said or didn't say? I will give you credit, you know how to pull chains. You might start looking how to set up a VPN so you can go back to MSF and start life over again. You are using this one up fast. Oh, relax. I'm not trying to push your buttons or anyone elses. Trust me when I say if that's what I wanted to do, it would have happened. Has the thought ever occurred to you that if I had seen proof of someone talking bad about/towards a disabled hunter that it would not anger me? I have been quite vocal in my opinion that youth, seniors, and disabled hunters should be exempt from APR's. The first thing you and others go for is attacks and Kool-aid comments. All I asked for was proof. That's it. Unlike some, I just don't take someone's word for it. That includes claims by you, other SMART members, and yes....that includes Jim Brauker as well. I will not apologize now, or ever, for not following MSF like I did in the past. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 14, 2015 20:23:43 GMT -5
I'm sorry FnF
I'm the one pushing buttons.
I have been.
I was bored and needed something to waste my time.
You were it.
This isn't a prove me site.
If you want to have any further discourse with anyone here, use Facebook. Just let me hunt deer, Michigan smarthunters to start.
You can come back with another moniker, but FNF is history.
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Post by BDBDH on Dec 22, 2015 14:11:32 GMT -5
Never before have I seen a bigger bunch of whiners in my life. You guys have no comprehension of conservation. All you care about is being able to kill your spike horns and 4 points and to hell with the rest. "Your not going to tell me what I can kill" attitudes are old and out dated guys. Step into the 21st century. You are typical liberals who resort to name calling and belittling people to get your way. You have no data or factual information supporting your positions at all. Why can you not just look at the big picture and see that this state needs change and the best and most reasonable change is APRs. This is a system that everyone can live with, from the beginners to the Veterans. Why is it so bad to want change and to improve hunting in this state? Why must you resort to low level attacks on those that support this movement? All it does is prove to everyone how little you guys really know about what is actually good for this herd and this states future. Young bucks need to be protected, not slaughtered like they have been for decades.
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Post by daappleknocker on Dec 22, 2015 14:49:25 GMT -5
"Young bucks need to be protected..." BDBDH, define "young bucks". Buttons? or 18-22 month old deer? |
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Post by BDBDH on Dec 22, 2015 15:22:20 GMT -5
You know exactly what I mean by young bucks but just to clarify, 1 1/2 old bucks. That is not much to ask. A 3 point per side restriction will protect approximately 60-70% of the yearling buck cohort and allow them to advance to 2 year olds. Its not that big of a deal guys. It really isn't. But if you want to keep your tinfoil hats on and hate on everyone then I guess have at it. Its going to be very lonely over here though.
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Post by ridge on Dec 22, 2015 19:59:46 GMT -5
You know exactly what I mean by young bucks but just to clarify, 1 1/2 old bucks. That is not much to ask. A 3 point per side restriction will protect approximately 60-70% of the yearling buck cohort and allow them to advance to 2 year olds. Its not that big of a deal guys. It really isn't. But if you want to keep your tinfoil hats on and hate on everyone then I guess have at it. Its going to be very lonely over here though. How many times does your group change the words to the same old tune. DR. J and his ilk now have been saying that it is about taking mature bucks with they define as 5 years and older with larger antlers. That is a huge jump from 1.5 years old. Clearly it has been about trophy hunting for the few and it always will be. Lonely, hardly, we may be growing slowly, on here, but we are growing. There is also a large growing segment of Michigan Deer Hunters that does not have time for the internet that is anti mandatory restriction. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 22, 2015 22:42:34 GMT -5
You know exactly what I mean by young bucks but just to clarify, 1 1/2 old bucks. That is not much to ask. A 3 point per side restriction will protect approximately 60-70% of the yearling buck cohort and allow them to advance to 2 year olds. Its not that big of a deal guys. It really isn't. But if you want to keep your tinfoil hats on and hate on everyone then I guess have at it. Its going to be very lonely over here though. If it wasn't that big of a deal you wouldn't be here whining about not being able to shoot your buck. You don't get the big picture. But you know that  |
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Post by ridge on Dec 29, 2015 18:53:47 GMT -5
In response to a post that I made in "Defining the Success of APRs", one of the leaders of the pro-restriction proposal group stated that they do not have to prove anything when I asked for concrete data illustrating the benefits of MAPRs. He was right in that they don't have to do it. They can hope that the renewal vote will pass on air and propaganda as it has in the past. I stated that I would not allow deceptive percentages or data from non-DNR stations or collection sites. If the restriction group has nothing then they can show nothing.
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 29, 2015 21:01:12 GMT -5
The guy you are talking about is a real gem. He came down to my level at one time . Pay little or no attention to him, he thought he was right about his proposals passing. This is the way I see Tony, A real comedian, yuk yuk! I see there is an influx of new members on MSF that fall right into the debate over the Maprs. I stand corrected on my assertion of one of our new members' former ID. I do not know for sure. I forgot about buttons and bowes. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 30, 2015 6:24:56 GMT -5
Who said this?
"If hunters have a choice of showing restraint or not, many (most) choose not to."
An interesting statement, seeing this person has stated that a majority of hunters are in favor of mandatory restrictions on bucks.
Which is it? A majority of hunters do not want to restrain themselves, or a majority want Maprs? It can't be both ways.
Oh wait a person with a PHD can put spin on anything and the lemmings will believe it. He keeps their beat going on. LOL!
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