|
|
Post by Dale Malusi on Nov 30, 2015 20:07:59 GMT -5
Let's start a thread that showcases some of the outlandish statements made by the anti-choice crowd recently on social media.
No proof is needed, they don't need it, neither do you.
I'll start;
"With maprs there will be more 6 and 8 pointers and less spikes and forkies running around."
"I only want bucks to see their second birthday."
"Good hunters aren't a problem, it's the weekend warriors that screw up the deer woods,"
" My neighbor can be hunting 100 yds away and have terrible hunting over the past 3 year(which is true) and we are having incredible success 100 yds away."
"I argue that the DNR and the NRC wanted APR'S when they sent this to a survey. If not then why have a survey? If they thought it was a bad idea they would have dismissed it"
"With the deer numbers so low in the UP a lot of guys are going to say, screw deer camp in the UP and start new camps in the NW13. Not that I really mind as I hunt mostly private, but I know all the state land is heavily hunted now and I fear it will end up like the public land in southern Michigan."
"And u only have to pass on probably 50% of yearling bucks "
I could go on and on, and I will, but fell free to add some that you think,....stink.
|
|
|
|
Post by hartman756 on Nov 30, 2015 20:59:24 GMT -5
That every buck killed there is the product of MARs now! That they are still the majority and growing and will easily get MARs permanent in the NWLP and then the ret of the state in 2017! That there isn't one hunter hunting in the NWLP that is unhappy with the MARs regulations! |
|
|
|
Post by Dale Malusi on Nov 30, 2015 21:24:06 GMT -5
That every buck killed there is the product of MARs now! That they are still the majority and growing and will easily get MARs permanent in the NWLP and then the ret of the state in 2017! That there isn't one hunter hunting in the NWLP that is unhappy with the MARs regulations! You have no reading comprehension do you Hartman?... Ah nevermind I know you don't'! Tip of the Mitt QDMA on facebook is unreal. Emmet county has some giant bucks Fortunately, a 2.5 year old buck is 1,000 times smarter than a 1.5. This reason alone will allow many of them to reach 3.5 years and older. We call that sparky alley up here. You hit the nail right on the head. I know many hunters in the millennial age group and every single one of them wants bigger deer. Times are changing, and the trend is clear. Michigan is not going to go backward. The old timer views are fading away. Yeap, my teenaged son is a huge supporter of QDM and he's never shot a buck. |
|
|
|
Post by hartman756 on Nov 30, 2015 21:44:46 GMT -5
It took me a min but that is funny right there ! And yes that is a common statement from them !
|
|
|
|
Post by hartman756 on Nov 30, 2015 21:52:47 GMT -5
If you hunt for the meat there is way more meat on an older buck. If you hunt for the meat just kill a doe ( without mentioning that you need to enter in a lottery for a doe permit mid summer and then if you are selected spend an extra $20 +the entry fee just because they want to shoot a big buck and they would have you kill the last doe in the area for their own selfish desires) You can't hunt so you want to shoot the dumbest deer in the woods.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dale Malusi on Nov 30, 2015 22:02:18 GMT -5
.
We just want to make your hunting better.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dale Malusi on Nov 30, 2015 22:26:24 GMT -5
the baby bucks are harder to hit thats why you usualy need a bait pile 10 feet from the truck
You just posted in one of your "reports" about your Leelanau hunts that you had the opportunity to kill a button buck and tag it with an antlerless tag, but chose not to?
And this why we need the "M" in MAPRS!
APR's wouldn't affect me at all. a good number of people would benefit from a higher possibility of getting more meat and PROBABLY consider their experiences more fun if they saw more bucks
|
|
|
|
Post by Let em grow. on Dec 1, 2015 12:34:51 GMT -5
You guys are all just a bunch of complainers stuck in the 70's. Get with the times guys. Times are changing weather you like it or not. I know it just kills you guys that you can not stop this momentum "We" have. Its not that big of a deal to pass up a spike horn or a 4 point. Put your big boy pants on a buck up. (pardon the pun). So glad to hear one of you passed up that button buck. Wow, that was tough for you I know. Just think of the meat you could have put in the freezer. All 25lbs of it. The younger generation whats to be part of the solution not part of the problem. This is for the future of deer hunting for our kids and Grand kids. That's what this is about. MAPRs for better deer and better deer hunting.
|
|
|
|
Post by ridge on Dec 1, 2015 14:00:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the examples, Let 'em Grow". You did a great job of demonstrating many of those baseless opinions of which you are entitled. "Big boy pants?", who is doing the crying that they do not see or find enough big bucks? The restriction crowd wants everyone to believe that they are not there outside of restriction areas in spite of the fact that contests and reports show a large amount of older bucks across the state every year.
"We are doing it for the common everyday hunter". The restriction movement will push the guy that has a couple of days or only public land to hunt right out of the picture. Joe lunch bucket hunter will feel betrayed by the false promises and will leave hunting.
A glut of pictures of "MAPR bucks". What about all of the pictures that show bucks in non restriction areas? Did those restriction area bucks carry birth certificates to show that they were born in that area and did not disperse into that area? Did they carry papers saying that they lived in areas without thousands of acres of cover with fewer hunters? I could go on but the real truth is the last thing the restriction group wants the public to grasp.
My grandkids want to carry on the tradition of providing food for the table while hunting for fun and not for competition. The restriction group is not building for the future but for themselves. The clubs and special interest groups only want more to brag about for themselves. The "I do not need MAPRs" statement is nothing but air. If they did not need it, they would not be running over everyone in their all out effort to get it. Their false self-serving attitude of "I am doing this for the good of everyone else," is pure drivel. If everyone else wanted it, it would have started with everyone else and not with the "better" hunters. They openly consider themselves elite and they work for the special interests that they consider elite. That is their real hidden agenda.
|
|
|
|
Post by hartman756 on Dec 1, 2015 14:07:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the examples, Let 'em Grow". You did a great job of demonstrating many of those baseless opinions of which you are entitled. "Big boy pants?", who is doing the crying that they do not see or find enough big bucks? The restriction crowd wants everyone to believe that they are not there outside of restriction areas in spite of the fact that contests and reports show a large amount of older bucks across the state every year. "We are doing it for the common everyday hunter". The restriction movement will push the guy that has a couple of days or only public land to hunt right out of the picture. Joe lunch bucket hunter will feel betrayed by the false promises and will leave hunting. A glut of pictures of "MAPR bucks". What about all of the pictures that show bucks in non restriction areas? Did those restriction area bucks carry birth certificates to show that they were born in that area and did not disperse into that area? Did they carry papers saying that they lived in areas without thousands of acres of cover with fewer hunters? I could go on but the real truth is the last thing the restriction group wants the public to grasp. What is funny about all these claims of hunters embracing MARs is that once you get off the QDM sites on the web the overwhelming message is that hunters are not happy with MARs. The QDMers like to brag about the number of followers they have but that pales in comparison to what other sites have in regards to followers . And when they try to push their weight around on these other sites they get told to hit the road as they cause too much division with there bullying and belittling ! |
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 14:14:24 GMT -5
1. Year after year, an area under MAPR's will absolutely have more 6-8 pointers as a percentage of the buck population. That is what is meant by having less spikes and forkies.
2. The goal behind APR's is exactly that....to allow bucks to reach their second birthday. No trophy program in existence bases harvest decisions solely on the number of antler points a deer has. That's a strawman a few of you conjured up.
3. Another strawman
4. Is completely possible based upon hunting style, adherence to scent control strategies, ingress/egress, and available habitat.
5. Another strawman.
6. A completely valid concern.
7. True. The APR is meant to protect around 50% of yearling bucks. It would then stand to reason one would need to pass approximately 50% of the yearling bucks. It's called simple math.
|
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 14:33:11 GMT -5
APR's are not meant to be a competition, nor were they ever proposed as such. Those in favor of them are just as concerned in the future of hunting for our kids and grandkids as those against, if not more than.
The "common everyday hunter" stands to gain much more than many of those in favor of APR's. For most (of those in favor), they don't need them.
Pictures of deer harvests are being shared all over the internet. Many attribute those successes, in part, to APR's.... including myself. So what? Harvest surveys will take any conjecture off of the table. A few of your very own vocal opposition have stated they would change their minds if certain numbers are positive.
The statement that the majority of hunters are against APR's is most certainly, and unequivocally, false. Multiple surveys and polls have proven that fact.
|
|
|
|
Post by ridge on Dec 1, 2015 14:38:53 GMT -5
1. Year after year, an area under MAPR's will absolutely have more 6-8 pointers as a percentage of the buck population. That is what is meant by having less spikes and forkies. 2. The goal behind APR's is exactly that....to allow bucks to reach their second birthday. No trophy program in existence bases harvest decisions solely on the number of antler points a deer has. That's a strawman a few of you conjured up. 3. Another strawman 4. Is completely possible based upon hunting style, adherence to scent control strategies, ingress/egress, and available habitat. 5. Another strawman. 6. A completely valid concern. 7. True. The APR is meant to protect around 50% of yearling bucks. It would then stand to reason one would need to pass approximately 50% of the yearling bucks. It's called simple math. If the goal is to have more second year bucks, why do they glut the media with pictures of "trophy bucks that were not there before restrictions"? They do not show the pictures of little basket bucks that have 5-7 points. It is because the restrictions are really after the trophy bucks which they claim are the only "mature" bucks which are the only ones that a "good" hunter should take. Their words betray your point. It seems that you are saying by point four that there is no need for challenge or for learning and experience in hunting deer. I do not believe that for a second. That idea has certainly not been a part of my experience. I see every year examples of inexperience preventing someone from getting their deer. They learn new skills and they improve their ability and probability for taking a deer. Would you rather hunt a plowed field or a cedar swamp or the edge of a standing corn field? Of course, habitat makes a large difference as does the number of hunters in a given area. Several of the restriction group that are well-known claim that there are few spikes and that healthy deer can have three points on one side as yearlings (their second fall) so how does that protect 50%. They have no real basis for that number other than that it serves the purpose to conjure it up based on their perception of deceptive harvest numbers. Some of these same folks claim that all spikes and forkhorns grow up to be large antlered deer in spite of seeing old spikes and other smaller antlered deer every year. It is the restriction group that are using "straw men" and they will get burned by the experiences of the common hunter that know better and that do not like being described as less than "good" hunters, whatever those are. |
|
|
|
Post by hartman756 on Dec 1, 2015 14:49:04 GMT -5
Not trying to be anal here but I think it is important to point out that the MARs that are in place currently protect 76% of the 1.5 year old bucks ! And that takes a lot of bucks that hunters would be happy with harvesting completely off the table.
|
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 15:02:14 GMT -5
1. Year after year, an area under MAPR's will absolutely have more 6-8 pointers as a percentage of the buck population. That is what is meant by having less spikes and forkies. 2. The goal behind APR's is exactly that....to allow bucks to reach their second birthday. No trophy program in existence bases harvest decisions solely on the number of antler points a deer has. That's a strawman a few of you conjured up. 3. Another strawman 4. Is completely possible based upon hunting style, adherence to scent control strategies, ingress/egress, and available habitat. 5. Another strawman. 6. A completely valid concern. 7. True. The APR is meant to protect around 50% of yearling bucks. It would then stand to reason one would need to pass approximately 50% of the yearling bucks. It's called simple math. If the goal is to have more second year bucks, why do they glut the media with pictures of "trophy bucks that were not there before restrictions"? They do not show the pictures of little basket bucks that have 5-7 points. It is because the restrictions are really after the trophy bucks which they claim are the only "mature" bucks which are the only ones that a "good" hunter should take. Their words betray your point. It seems that you are saying by point four that there is no need for challenge or for learning and experience in hunting deer. I do not believe that for a second. That idea has certainly not been a part of my experience. I see every year examples of inexperience preventing someone from getting their deer. They learn new skills and they improve their ability and probability for taking a deer. Would you rather hunt a plowed field or a cedar swamp or the edge of a standing corn field? Of course, habitat makes a large difference as does the number of hunters in a given area. Several of the restriction group that are well-known claim that there are few spikes and that healthy deer can have three points on one side as yearlings (their second fall) so how does that protect 50%. They have no real basis for that number other than that it serves the purpose to conjure it up based on their perception of deceptive harvest numbers. Some of these same folks claim that all spikes and forkhorns grow up to be large antlered deer in spite of seeing old spikes and other smaller antlered deer every year. It is the restriction group that are using "straw men" and they will get burned by the experiences of the common hunter that know better and that do not like being described as less than "good" hunters, whatever those are. Because those are the bucks that are being harvested? I don't know. There have been multiple posts of 1 1/2 year old 6-8 point bucks on there. Many of them by kids, some not. Any disrespect of their harvest was not tolerated. Ridge, APR's are not a Trophy Program. Not even close. Ridge, protection rates are determined by DNR Biologists. Not by you, me, or any other armchair forum member. They are not being misleading. Protection rates are protection rates based upon years of gathered biological data. |
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 15:05:05 GMT -5
Not trying to be anal here but I think it is important to point out that the MARs that are in place currently protect 76% of the 1.5 year old bucks ! And that takes a lot of bucks that hunters would be happy with harvesting completely off the table. That is incorrect. |
|
|
|
Post by hartman756 on Dec 1, 2015 15:09:24 GMT -5
Not trying to be anal here but I think it is important to point out that the MARs that are in place currently protect 76% of the 1.5 year old bucks ! And that takes a lot of bucks that hunters would be happy with harvesting completely off the table. That is incorrect. You would have to ask jim brauker and tony smith about the correctness of that as they are the ones that claim that number. I do not have the time right now but if I get time later I will do a quick look and try and find one of their many quotes on it. |
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 15:11:40 GMT -5
You would have to ask jim brauker and tony smith about the correctness of that as they are the ones that claim that number. I do not have the time right now but if I get time later I will do a quick look and try and find one of their many quotes on it. Show the readers of this forum where they said the currently enacted APR protects 76% of yearling bucks. |
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 15:24:05 GMT -5
You would have to ask jim brauker and tony smith about the correctness of that as they are the ones that claim that number. I do not have the time right now but if I get time later I will do a quick look and try and find one of their many quotes on it. A 4/4 APR in the SLP would have protected 76% of yearling bucks as 76% of yearling bucks in the SLP had less than 7 points. We dont have a 4/4 APR. Context matters. A 3/4 APR would have protected less than 50% of yearling bucks and wasn't allowed by the DNR to be in the proposal. I wish it would have, as I think hunters would have supported the 3/4 in greater numbers than a 4/4. |
|
|
|
Post by hartman756 on Dec 1, 2015 16:40:10 GMT -5
You would have to ask jim brauker and tony smith about the correctness of that as they are the ones that claim that number. I do not have the time right now but if I get time later I will do a quick look and try and find one of their many quotes on it. A 4/4 APR in the SLP would have protected 76% of yearling bucks as 76% of yearling bucks in the SLP had less than 7 points. We dont have a 4/4 APR. Context matters. A 3/4 APR would have protected less than 50% of yearling bucks and wasn't allowed by the DNR to be in the proposal. I wish it would have, as I think hunters would have supported the 3/4 in greater numbers than a 4/4. I am talking about the MARs currently in place in the NWLP. |
|
|
|
Post by hartman756 on Dec 1, 2015 16:46:36 GMT -5
Here is the numbers that jim brauker is using and yes I was off on the % by a few
Now we also have to put into perspective that those MARs will also protect a certain % of the older bucks as well so once again that is a lot of bucks that are now illegal . |
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 18:03:25 GMT -5
Here is the numbers that jim brauker is using and yes I was off on the % by a few
Now we also have to put into perspective that those MARs will also protect a certain % of the older bucks as well so once again that is a lot of bucks that are now illegal . For the first year only, then harvest numbers even back out. That's the point. You've stated that you will support APR's when you see that. Are you ready to back that statement up? |
|
|
|
Post by yesdeer on Dec 1, 2015 18:34:46 GMT -5
You guys are all just a bunch of complainers stuck in the 70's. Get with the times guys. Times are changing weather you like it or not. I know it just kills you guys that you can not stop this momentum "We" have. Its not that big of a deal to pass up a spike horn or a 4 point. Put your big boy pants on a buck up. (pardon the pun). So glad to hear one of you passed up that button buck. Wow, that was tough for you I know. Just think of the meat you could have put in the freezer. All 25lbs of it. The younger generation whats to be part of the solution not part of the problem. This is for the future of deer hunting for our kids and Grand kids. That's what this is about. MAPRs for better deer and better deer hunting. Gee, right now I would gladly take that 25 lbs. Of meat as opposed to the zero lbs. We have due to being in the northwest 12...get over yourself, not everyone needs to prove their manliness via antlers. |
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 19:05:04 GMT -5
You guys are all just a bunch of complainers stuck in the 70's. Get with the times guys. Times are changing weather you like it or not. I know it just kills you guys that you can not stop this momentum "We" have. Its not that big of a deal to pass up a spike horn or a 4 point. Put your big boy pants on a buck up. (pardon the pun). So glad to hear one of you passed up that button buck. Wow, that was tough for you I know. Just think of the meat you could have put in the freezer. All 25lbs of it. The younger generation whats to be part of the solution not part of the problem. This is for the future of deer hunting for our kids and Grand kids. That's what this is about. MAPRs for better deer and better deer hunting. Gee, right now I would gladly take that 25 lbs. Of meat as opposed to the zero lbs. We have due to being in the northwest 12...get over yourself, not everyone needs to prove their manliness via antlers. Then I suppose you'll have no problem harvesting a doe instead. Good luck hunting. Hope you get some meat for the freezer. |
|
|
|
Post by hartman756 on Dec 1, 2015 20:29:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourself just yet FF. Unless you know the numbers are being rigged somehow in your favor.
I swear you QDMers would kill the last doe in the NWLP just to save a potential big buck in a couple of years ! Doe tags are issued on a lottery basis in many of the DMUs(as there is a limited supply)and basically none for those that hunt state land in the NWLP. What is going to happen to the buck numbers (young or old ) when there isn't any does to make more ?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 1, 2015 21:11:03 GMT -5
This thread is for outlandish claims made by the guys pushing maprs.
Any posts to the otherwise will be deleted.
If you want to debate, start another thread! This is not MSF!
|
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 21:16:45 GMT -5
I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourself just yet FF. Unless you know the numbers are being rigged somehow in your favor.
I swear you QDMers would kill the last doe in the NWLP just to save a potential big buck in a couple of years ! Doe tags are issued on a lottery basis in many of the DMUs(as there is a limited supply)and basically none for those that hunt state land in the NWLP. What is going to happen to the buck numbers (young or old ) when there isn't any does to make more ?
Numbers are already coming out. Do some research. No padding needed. I'm not jumping to conclusions. I asked you a simple question. That's it. |
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 21:19:32 GMT -5
This thread is for outlandish claims made by the guys pushing maprs. Any posts to the otherwise will be deleted. If you want to debate, start another thread! This is not MSF! The time for debate is over. If you'd like to debate, that's fine, but I'd recommend you get some facts straight instead of doing the readers of this forum a disservice by spreading patently false information. If you don't want anyone to question your facts, don't post up non-factual and misleading statements as fact. Pretty simple. |
|
|
|
Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 1, 2015 21:26:45 GMT -5
Don't worry about the readers of this forum. Not your concern.
Everything I posted is cut and pasted from the internet, it must be true.
|
|
|
|
Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 21:53:21 GMT -5
Don't worry about the readers of this forum. Not your concern. Everything I posted is cut and pasted from the internet, it must be true. Uhhh. Bonjour? |
|
