Pro MARs crowd unhappy with the results of MARs

[QDM MARS]

Jun 11, 2015 12:43:33 GMT -5 jimmer said:

The first post set the tone, and was an attack on someone

You really think that?  If so than maybe Lincoln and Clay etc. shouldn't have posted  what they did. I shows they will NEVER be happy with Michigan .

BTW , Worse things are said on that page by its members towards each other than what was written in this thread !!!

You nailed it jimmer !  Much more backstabbing and bickering among the QDMers on that page than any thing I posted in my opening post of this thread

[Dale Malusi]

Jun 11, 2015 10:58:03 GMT -5 fieldnfeathers said:

Jun 11, 2015 10:08:53 GMT -5 Dale Malusi said:

Title of this thread; "Pro MARs crowd unhappy with the results of MARs."
No attack in the title.
I know you aren't happy, so you would take it personal and call it an attack.
Remember your tough guy remark?............You have a chip on your shoulder, not me. I'm enjoying life, you should too.

No, actually, I dont. The title of the thread is irrelevant. The first post set the tone, and was an attack on someone. It didn't attack you at all.

As far as your enjoying life jab. What's not to enjoy? I have a 6 figure income, great wife and family, live in a sunny and warm climate, and own 100+ acres of prime deer hunting land in Michigan. My life is quite enjoyable, but thank you for your "concern". I think you've confused my intolerance for ignorance as having a "chip on my shoulder".

Enjoy your day.

Intolerance for ignorance.
Just about says it all doesn't  it?
When you have nothing to bring, you insult.
Congrats on your fine life.
I'm glad you can't affect mine.

[fieldnfeathers]

Jun 11, 2015 17:50:15 GMT -5 Dale Malusi said:

Jun 11, 2015 10:58:03 GMT -5 fieldnfeathers said:

No, actually, I dont. The title of the thread is irrelevant. The first post set the tone, and was an attack on someone. It didn't attack you at all.

As far as your enjoying life jab. What's not to enjoy? I have a 6 figure income, great wife and family, live in a sunny and warm climate, and own 100+ acres of prime deer hunting land in Michigan. My life is quite enjoyable, but thank you for your "concern". I think you've confused my intolerance for ignorance as having a "chip on my shoulder".

Enjoy your day.

Congrats on your fine life.

Thanks.

[ridge]

Curtis, daappleknocker, was involved in two posts in this thread.  In one he simply referred to mine.  In the other he made no mention of Lincoln Rohn or Clay McNitt.  If the two of you wish to continue to post here as guests, get your accusations correct or they will be removed.  I dislike making additional warnings beyond those that have already been stated for this site but in the interest of trying to bend over backwards to you with the idea of being more fair than you give the impression of being on here, I will do it one last time.

QDM MARS is the ultimate administrator and he has the authority to make any and all final decisions on removals.

My post concerning one person suffering loss and another leaving the state was not referring to either one of you, if that is what you believed.  Everyone that is or has been involved with the MARs issue understands that SMART is opposed to MARs.  Why is it a shock then to find information on this site that supports our position?  

Incredible numbers have been spun around on this issue since the first post was made on whatever site this issue began on years ago.  MARs folks seem to have the need to justify such creative measures and we feel the need to expose them to the true light of day.  If the Pro-Restriction folks do not wish to have us deal with these miracle numbers then do away with the numbers, charts, graphs, etc. that seem to be developed for a propaganda value alone.  Let's get down to the bare facts.  MARs proponents want more large antlers available for their walls and Choice proponents want the venison of their choice available for the dinner table.  Why does all of the game playing have to be endured?

[Clay Mcnitt]

Jun 11, 2015 20:48:35 GMT -5 ridge said:

Curtis, daappleknocker, was involved in two posts in this thread.  In one he simply referred to mine.  In the other he made no mention of Lincoln Rohn or Clay McNitt.  If the two of you wish to continue to post here as guests, get your accusations correct or they will be removed.  I dislike making additional warnings beyond those that have already been stated for this site but in the interest of trying to bend over backwards to you with the idea of being more fair than you give the impression of being on here, I will do it one last time.

QDM MARS is the ultimate administrator and he has the authority to make any and all final decisions on removals.

My post concerning one person suffering loss and another leaving the state was not referring to either one of you, if that is what you believed.  Everyone that is or has been involved with the MARs issue understands that SMART is opposed to MARs.  Why is it a shock then to find information on this site that supports our position?  

Incredible numbers have been spun around on this issue since the first post was made on whatever site this issue began on years ago.  MARs folks seem to have the need to justify such creative measures and we feel the need to expose them to the true light of day.  If the Pro-Restriction folks do not wish to have us deal with these miracle numbers then do away with the numbers, charts, graphs, etc. that seem to be developed for a propaganda value alone.  Let's get down to the bare facts.  MARs proponents want more large antlers available for their walls and Choice proponents want the venison of their choice available for the dinner table.  Why does all of
the game playing have to be endured?

Seriously, your going to claim it's about putting meat in the freezer. The truth is you can't stand the thought of not killing the first spike you see. We have early and late doe seasons, full crossbow inclusion, allowed baiting, youth seasons, about 100 straight days of hunting, combo tags good for either sex with archery including crossbow, not to mention a pretty liberal amount of doe tags in most counties., along with the moden technology of bows, muzzleloaders etc. ... This has never been about meat in the freezer. It's about you being upset about not killing any buck of your choice period. Most hunters could fiill multiple tags in a couple days if wanted....that's the truth of it.

I stand behind what I originally wrote, I think it's a sad case when every state around us has better quality hunting then we do in the state as a whole. Traditional deer management falls short in my opinion

[ridge]

"Most hunters could fill multiple tags in a couple of days if wanted . . . that's the truth of it."   

That's quite a statement.  Where do you hunt?  In an enclosed pen, in the new CWD Zone, over a dump truck load of bait, in a city park, in a farm field with a magnum rifle where they have not been shot at before you arrived???

Your statement insults a lot of hunters.  Perhaps that is your goal.  I certainly do not know nor understand how someone could make that statement about a legal hunter.  You advocate taking those larger bucks and you want everyone to believe it is that easy?  If you know what you are talking about, then why is there any need for any MAPRs?  Your statement says that it only takes a couple of days.  What truth is that?

What is wrong with killing the first legal buck of my choice?  Truth - Absolutely nothing!!!!!!!!!  If you prefer the tougher gamier old buck, go for it, that is perfectly legal and available.  (For you it is apparently easy.)  My family prefers a younger more tender animal or a doe.  The pro-restriction crowd wants to take away the choices that hunters have been able to make for many generations.  What is really sad is that by doing so, the pro-restriction crowd would do something that would serve no real purpose at all except to enhance their own egos.

As to your last statement, check the QDMA data and the harvest data of most of the whitetail states.  It shows that by your standards, Michigan is at the top or in the top two, for taking the highest number of large bucks.  Either you would like to see Michigan taking fewer large bucks or you are simply attacking Michigan's record because you don't like hunting in Michigan.  That is the truth.  "every state around us has better quality hunting"  Not by your standards or the pro-restriction crowd standards, we already take more large bucks than other states!!!!!!!

Like most of the pro-restriction numbers, yours simply do not add up when squared with the real thing.

[Dale Malusi]

Jun 11, 2015 23:02:45 GMT -5 Clay Mcnitt said:

Jun 11, 2015 20:48:35 GMT -5 ridge said:

Curtis, daappleknocker, was involved in two posts in this thread.  In one he simply referred to mine.  In the other he made no mention of Lincoln Rohn or Clay McNitt.  If the two of you wish to continue to post here as guests, get your accusations correct or they will be removed.  I dislike making additional warnings beyond those that have already been stated for this site but in the interest of trying to bend over backwards to you with the idea of being more fair than you give the impression of being on here, I will do it one last time.

QDM MARS is the ultimate administrator and he has the authority to make any and all final decisions on removals.

My post concerning one person suffering loss and another leaving the state was not referring to either one of you, if that is what you believed.  Everyone that is or has been involved with the MARs issue understands that SMART is opposed to MARs.  Why is it a shock then to find information on this site that supports our position?  

Incredible numbers have been spun around on this issue since the first post was made on whatever site this issue began on years ago.  MARs folks seem to have the need to justify such creative measures and we feel the need to expose them to the true light of day.  If the Pro-Restriction folks do not wish to have us deal with these miracle numbers then do away with the numbers, charts, graphs, etc. that seem to be developed for a propaganda value alone.  Let's get down to the bare facts.  MARs proponents want more large antlers available for their walls and Choice proponents want the venison of their choice available for the dinner table.  Why does all of
the game playing have to be endured?

Seriously, your going to claim it's about putting meat in the freezer. The truth is you can't stand the thought of not killing the first spike you see. We have early and late doe seasons, full crossbow inclusion, allowed baiting, youth seasons, about 100 straight days of hunting, combo tags good for either sex with archery including crossbow, not to mention a pretty liberal amount of doe tags in most counties., along with the moden technology of bows, muzzleloaders etc. ... This has never been about meat in the freezer. It's about you being upset about not killing any buck of your choice period. Most hunters could fiill multiple tags in a couple days if wanted....that's the truth of it.

I stand behind what I originally wrote, I think it's a sad case when every state around us has better quality hunting then we do in the state as a whole. Traditional deer management falls short in my opinion

Better is such a subjective word. Do you think you could provide us with some hard data to back up such an opinionated statement. I have seen pictures of the fruits of your local hunting pasted all over the internet stating how good the mapr hunting was in MI, it must be outstanding in WI and OH.

[hartman756]

Your statement insults a lot of hunters. Perhaps that is your goal

Yes that is Clays and many others goal. They spend thousands of dollars on trying to make deer hunting what they think they want and just can't stand the thought of a hunter simply enjoying deer hunting and shooting one of their bucks before it gets ripe after they have put so much time and money into trying to grow them.

As to your last statement, check the QDMA data and the harvest data of most of the whitetail states. It shows that by your standards, Michigan is at the top or in the top two, for taking the highest number of large bucks.

And yet Clay and his gang continue to bash Michigan deer hunting . Proving that they only want to whine about other deer hunters shooting their bucks . We have the most increasable state to hunt deer in and they can only bash it  If they would stop worrying about what other hunters are shooting and focus on just enjoying the hunt they might  see that

[Dale Malusi]

Jun 11, 2015 23:02:45 GMT -5 Clay Mcnitt said:

Jun 11, 2015 20:48:35 GMT -5 ridge said:

Curtis, daappleknocker, was involved in two posts in this thread.  In one he simply referred to mine.  In the other he made no mention of Lincoln Rohn or Clay McNitt.  If the two of you wish to continue to post here as guests, get your accusations correct or they will be removed.  I dislike making additional warnings beyond those that have already been stated for this site but in the interest of trying to bend over backwards to you with the idea of being more fair than you give the impression of being on here, I will do it one last time.

QDM MARS is the ultimate administrator and he has the authority to make any and all final decisions on removals.

My post concerning one person suffering loss and another leaving the state was not referring to either one of you, if that is what you believed.  Everyone that is or has been involved with the MARs issue understands that SMART is opposed to MARs.  Why is it a shock then to find information on this site that supports our position?  

Incredible numbers have been spun around on this issue since the first post was made on whatever site this issue began on years ago.  MARs folks seem to have the need to justify such creative measures and we feel the need to expose them to the true light of day.  If the Pro-Restriction folks do not wish to have us deal with these miracle numbers then do away with the numbers, charts, graphs, etc. that seem to be developed for a propaganda value alone.  Let's get down to the bare facts.  MARs proponents want more large antlers available for their walls and Choice proponents want the venison of their choice available for the dinner table.  Why does all of
the game playing have to be endured?

Seriously, your going to claim it's about putting meat in the freezer. The truth is you can't stand the thought of not killing the first spike you see. We have early and late doe seasons, full crossbow inclusion, allowed baiting, youth seasons, about 100 straight days of hunting, combo tags good for either sex with archery including crossbow, not to mention a pretty liberal amount of doe tags in most counties., along with the moden technology of bows, muzzleloaders etc. ... This has never been about meat in the freezer. It's about you being upset about not killing any buck of your choice period. Most hunters could fiill multiple tags in a couple days if wanted....that's the truth of it.

I stand behind what I originally wrote, I think it's a sad case when every state around us has better quality hunting then we do in the state as a whole. Traditional deer management falls short in my opinion

Clay McNitt:

"Hunted in Leelanau County for the last 16 years..."

"I grew up hunting in the Mesick area of Wexford County prior to moving to leelanau County..."

"...hunted whitetail deer for approximately 30 years..."

"Since hunting deer in DMU 045 under the current antler point restrictions that went into effect in 2003 I have killed my best 7 Michigan bucks, all on public land during the last 10 years."

"I have access to hundreds of acres of family ag land in Wexford County. The private agricultural land there does not compare to the quality of hunting on public land under the current APR rules in DMU 045."     

[Clay Mcnitt]

Guess I'm missing the point of this post. This quote was prior to aprs being implemented in Wexford which is getting better by the year since aprs. That being said, I am very happy with the quality of hunting I have in my immediate area under aprs. I killed two good bucks last year one in leelanau, one in benzie. The fact being that the rest of the state is still managed under mostly traditional deer management resulting in poor ratios, and boom bust population cycles. Neither of which IMO are good for the herd or supported by the majority of hunters..

If I choose to hunt in another state every so often, that doesn't change my opinions as stated above....

[guest]

Jun 12, 2015 15:55:36 GMT -5 Clay Mcnitt said:

Guess I'm missing the point of this post. This quote was prior to aprs being implemented in Wexford which is getting better by the year since aprs. That being said, I am very happy with the quality of hunting I have in my immediate area under aprs. I killed two good bucks last year one in leelanau, one in benzie. The fact being that the rest of the state is still managed under mostly traditional deer management resulting in poor ratios, and boom bust population cycles. Neither of which IMO are good for the herd or supported by the majority of hunters..

If I choose to hunt in another state every so often, that doesn't change my opinions as stated above....

An opinion that has changed during the life of this thread   Just wonder if it will still be changed when you get back to your MARs buddies and everyone starts in on bashing Michigan and the DNR

[daappleknocker]

Clay and Lincoln, I support your choice of Antler Point Restrictions as I have personal restrictions that I impose on myself that are more stringent than current regulations where I hunt. The only difference is that I would NEVER impose them on others, not even at my "Appleknocker's Lodge" hunting camp. I believe that the APR sentiment is changing towards more and more hunters accepting APR's. The harvest of yearling bucks is going down every year. This trend will continue and I believe it will eventually reach a point that the "mandatory" part will be unnecessary. If we just have patience we will not be divisive and force this agenda on others, many of whom hunt for the venison and NOT the antlers. I also think that if you and the SMART members were to meet socially that we could become friends as I believe that we have more in common than not. 

[fieldnfeathers]

Jun 12, 2015 19:17:16 GMT -5 daappleknocker said:

Clay and Lincoln, I support your choice of Antler Point Restrictions as I have personal restrictions that I impose on myself that are more stringent than current regulations where I hunt. The only difference is that I would NEVER impose them on others, not even at my "Appleknocker's Lodge" hunting camp. I believe that the APR sentiment is changing towards more and more hunters accepting APR's. The harvest of yearling bucks is going down every year. This trend will continue and I believe it will eventually reach a point that the "mandatory" part will be unnecessary. If we just have patience we will not be divisive and force this agenda on others, many of whom hunt for the venison and NOT the antlers. I also think that if you and the SMART members were to meet socially that we could become friends as I believe that we have more in common than not. 

Very well written, Curtis.

[Dale Malusi]

Jun 12, 2015 19:17:16 GMT -5 daappleknocker said:

Clay and Lincoln, I support your choice of Antler Point Restrictions as I have personal restrictions that I impose on myself that are more stringent than current regulations where I hunt. The only difference is that I would NEVER impose them on others, not even at my "Appleknocker's Lodge" hunting camp. I believe that the APR sentiment is changing towards more and more hunters accepting APR's. The harvest of yearling bucks is going down every year. This trend will continue and I believe it will eventually reach a point that the "mandatory" part will be unnecessary. If we just have patience we will not be divisive and force this agenda on others, many of whom hunt for the venison and NOT the antlers. I also think that if you and the SMART members were to meet socially that we could become friends as I believe that we have more in common than not. 

I don't know about friends, but I'm sure we could have a more civil relationship.
Vocal communication is a much more effective way for two parties to come to an understanding than going back and forth in print.
I'm sure the trigger words wouldn't be used by either side.
It's a pipe dream

[addy]

i join q mars the hunnter website

[Dale Malusi]

Jun 13, 2015 18:43:53 GMT -5 addy said:

i join q mars the hunnter website

Welcome to the site Addy!

[hartman756]

Jun 13, 2015 18:43:53 GMT -5 addy said:

i join q mars the hunnter website

I think the translation is she also liked the facebook page  Just wait till she figures out who every one is on here !

[ridge]

Welcome Addy!  It is always good to hear from you.

[daappleknocker]

Welcome aboard Addy!

[addy]

Hi ridge

[bucksnbows]

I leave the state every year because I have more success on bucks I would like to target.....on public land too.

MAPR'S will more than likely never change that significant enough for me not to continue to leave the state.

MAPR's will not change the different topography and hunting experience I get out of state.

MAPR's will never make michigan as great of a state to hunt for big mature bucks like naturally happens in Iowa.

MAPR's will not give me the experience of exploring different areas to hunt.

MAPR's will never allow me to hunt a much less pressured deer herd like I find outside of Michigan.

MAPR's will protect more yearling bucks.
MAPR's will advance a portion to the next age class.
MAPR's will create a few more 3.5 plus year old bucks in time.

In the end MAPR's will make hunting for older than 1.5 year old bucks better and easier if you are willing to except 2.5 year olds as a big buck. It will improve your chances of seeing more 3.5s with a little work.

But it will never improve michigan enough to keep serious big buck hunters from leaving the state where the grass is and has been much greener for a much longer time.

Fact is Michigan is piss poor for mature bucks and MAPR'S bring a slight change to that and give more hope to some.

[Dale Malusi]

Bored?
To bring up an old post from over 8 months ago?
I'll bite.
You got banned again from that pro MAPR site. Or you are making a point over there about how idiotic we are.

As far as your last statement.

mibuckpole.com/

www.facebook.com/mibuckpole/

www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2014/11/big_bucks_more_michigan_bucks.html

They are there, just not enough.

[Dale Malusi]

Feb 25, 2016 9:27:32 GMT -5 bucksnbows said:

I leave the state every year because I have more success on bucks I would like to target.....on public land too.

MAPR'S will more than likely never change that significant enough for me not to continue to leave the state.

MAPR's will not change the different topography and hunting experience I get out of state.

MAPR's will never make michigan as great of a state to hunt for big mature bucks like naturally happens in Iowa.

MAPR's will not give me the experience of exploring different areas to hunt.

MAPR's will never allow me to hunt a much less pressured deer herd like I find outside of Michigan.

MAPR's will protect more yearling bucks.
MAPR's will advance a portion to the next age class.
MAPR's will create a few more 3.5 plus year old bucks in time.




In the end MAPR's will make hunting for older than 1.5 year old bucks better and easier if you are willing to except 2.5 year olds as a big buck. It will improve your chances of seeing more 3.5s with a little work.

But it will never improve michigan enough to keep serious big buck hunters from leaving the state where the grass is and has been much greener for a much longer time.

Fact is Michigan is piss poor for mature bucks and MAPR'S bring a slight change to that and give more hope to some.

The following quote is from MSF;
"----Yes I'll give you 2.5 being just as vulnerable but I see this as a more common occurrence in other states. In Michigan I find them to be a little less vulnerable than a yearling.
But and this is my opinion based off my experience from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri and Kentucky.
Once they reach 3.5 they become much less vulnerable.
They are not as tolerant of anything that is out of place. They do not stick around with curiosity.
With that said I find them much easier to hunt in other states. My thoughts on that revolve around my opinion that there are more of them elsewhere and less pressure. ----"
HMMMMMMMM!!!

[bucksnbows]

Feb 25, 2016 10:05:45 GMT -5 Dale Malusi said:

Feb 25, 2016 9:27:32 GMT -5 bucksnbows said:

I leave the state every year because I have more success on bucks I would like to target.....on public land too.

MAPR'S will more than likely never change that significant enough for me not to continue to leave the state.

MAPR's will not change the different topography and hunting experience I get out of state.

MAPR's will never make michigan as great of a state to hunt for big mature bucks like naturally happens in Iowa.

MAPR's will not give me the experience of exploring different areas to hunt.

MAPR's will never allow me to hunt a much less pressured deer herd like I find outside of Michigan.

MAPR's will protect more yearling bucks.
MAPR's will advance a portion to the next age class.
MAPR's will create a few more 3.5 plus year old bucks in time.




In the end MAPR's will make hunting for older than 1.5 year old bucks better and easier if you are willing to except 2.5 year olds as a big buck. It will improve your chances of seeing more 3.5s with a little work.

But it will never improve michigan enough to keep serious big buck hunters from leaving the state where the grass is and has been much greener for a much longer time.

Fact is Michigan is piss poor for mature bucks and MAPR'S bring a slight change to that and give more hope to some.

The following quote is from MSF;
"----Yes I'll give you 2.5 being just as vulnerable but I see this as a more common occurrence in other states. In Michigan I find them to be a little less vulnerable than a yearling.
But and this is my opinion based off my experience from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri and Kentucky.
Once they reach 3.5 they become much less vulnerable.
They are not as tolerant of anything that is out of place. They do not stick around with curiosity.
With that said I find them much easier to hunt in other states. My thoughts on that revolve around my opinion that there are more of them elsewhere and less pressure. ----"
HMMMMMMMM!!!

Sorry bud not me. I don't go on MSF and I only hunt Ohio and michigan

[bucksnbows]

A quick Google search and it tells me Pascal wrote that on msf.

Pascal is RMH buddy. Met him once while doing some work with RMH.
Seemed like a good guy..... but who knows.

His name is Jeff. That's about all I know.

[bucksnbows]

Oh...

You see every account you create on msf only helps out Steve. It attracts more advertising by how many members the site has.
After my go around so with Steve I will no longer help contribute to that site in any fashion.

Good luck y'all

[Dale Malusi]

That's typical Tom, deflect as usual.
I guess I should have just asked. Why bring up an 8 month old thread?
Two words lead me to believe you are not quite honest Tom.
Less pressure. Compare the two sentences containing said words in your post and the one I quote.
What are the odds?
MMMMMkay?

[hartman756]

Feb 25, 2016 13:52:39 GMT -5 bucksnbows said:

Oh...

You see every account you create on msf only helps out Steve. It attracts more advertising by how many members the site has.
After my go around so with Steve I will no longer help contribute to that site in any fashion.

Good luck y'all

Steve makes money off how many page views the forum gets . Now more accounts translated into more page views if those accounts are active however even if you don't log in (or have an account)and just read the MS forum you are still making money for steve as you are adding to the page views. My self I really don't let that effect how much time I spend on the MS forum except ,  all those adds (worse with the new format) cause my laptop to constantly freeze up (or load each page real slow) as there are so many adds trying to load. So I find my self spending less and less time on the MS forum  because of that. 

BTW : I call  on your claim you no longer have an account on there .....................................................

[field-n-feathers]

Use Google Chrome and download Ad Blocker. Problem solved.

[bucksnbows]

Feb 25, 2016 14:27:14 GMT -5 Dale Malusi said:

That's typical Tom, deflect as usual.
I guess I should have just asked. Why bring up an 8 month old thread?
Two words lead me to believe you are not quite honest Tom.
Less pressure. Compare the two sentences containing said words in your post and the one I quote.
What are the odds?
MMMMMkay?

I didn't know it was 8 months old. I saw a post was made February 10 by Addy.

Besides that it's pretty common how less pressure effects deer hunting. I'm sure more than myself has said that. But go on with what ever you want to believe.