Post by ridge on Dec 19, 2018 1:57:18 GMT -5
Stop Mandatory Antler Restrictions Today
December 17 at 4:23 PM ·
Below is a post from JOHN McINTOSH that sums up the push for Mandatory Antler Point Restrictions. I wish every hunter in the five Thumb Counties could read this before answering their survey.
John McIntosh to Michigan Bow Hunters Association
December 15 at 11:20 PM ·
...
Lots of discussion regarding APR's, both sides of the issue are dug in without any budging. Killing big ( or as the APR guys say "mature") bucks seems to be the driving force behind this movement. I've logged more than a few years in the woods, hunting many areas of the state, both public and private land.
Seeing or killing "mature" bucks is every bit about location and habitat. Mature bucks are harder to get chances at for the very reason they are mature- they adapt to the habitat that provides them the best in security, seclusion, and access to food sources. you can hunt large land parcels, or farms, and not see many if any simply because that particular habitat is not what they seek. Conversely, you could have a small parcel that regularly produces mature bucks simply because it has the right combination of cover, security, and food. Hunting pressure by various user groups can make or break a parcel.
This assumption that protecting certain age classes will somehow result in mature bucks running everywhere is laughable. I've hunted parcels with minimal pressure, that lack what mature deer seek, and rarely ever see a mature buck outside of the rut, and even then can be unpredictable. I've hunted parcels large and small, with the same observations. I've also seen small parcels with seemingly unreal numbers of more mature deer. Usually these are harder to access, or rarely if ever hunted.
Another thing I find amusing is how some of the APR proponents regularly discuss they only shoot deer that are 3.5 or 4.5 yrs of age minimum. You cannot tell the age of a deer simply by looking at it. You can get a good guess, but to accurately age a deer, you need a tooth sample, Its not uncommon for those guesstimating deers age to be way off. Assuming a basket 6 or 8 is only 1.5 when, after having it aged by a biologist, find it was much older, or vice versa.
Spikes that are 6-7 yrs old. Big heavy antlered bucks that are only 2.5 yrs old. Both of these scenarios are not at all uncommon.
I have a few questions for the APR crowd.
How will protecting a certain age class be accurately accomplished, when you cannot know for certain the age given that Antler points alone are not a given indicator of actual age?
Being that immature bucks are the most likely age class to disperse to other areas, how does protecting them help to limit the spread of CWD?
IF only mature deer are targeted, why is leaving only immature and small racked genetically inferior bucks to do the breeding a good thing?
Why would you only survey 2000 out of an estimated 60,000+ number of hunters in the 5 county region, when its been proven time and time again sample surveys are inaccurate, and can be easily skewed based on the dynamic of who is surveyed, and the wording of the survey?
Why, after being shot down TWICE in 3 county thumb APR initiatives, can you not take no for an answer?
Why do you feel its ok to force your ideal of deer "management on others. To tell an aging hunter that he can not shoot what could be his last deer of his life, simply because it doesn't meet your standard of acceptable?
Please tell me how someone hunting somewhere other than where you hunt affects your hunting by shooting something you would pass?
Why can you not opt for voluntary APR for yourself, where you hunt, without forcing it on the rest of us?
Why is it so bad to let hunters decide for themselves what to put their tag on if it doesn't interfere with your choice to do the same?
Why is it, throughout these discussions, you APR folks regularly ignore or dismiss the concerns of those opposed, and just stick strictly to your talking points like a broken record?
When did it become antler hunting instead of deer hunting?
Bucks have been hunted based on the 3" antler standard for decades. There is no shortage of "mature " bucks in MI, buck poles across the state prove this year in and year out. Finding, and killing these takes a combination of time investment in scouting and preparation, access to habitat that holds them, and some plain old luck. Luck can be increased by the first two items. Simply placing arbitrary point restrictions is not going to result in Booners behind every tree. It will result in losing more hunters. Those who will have had enough and throw in the towel.
December 17 at 4:23 PM ·
Below is a post from JOHN McINTOSH that sums up the push for Mandatory Antler Point Restrictions. I wish every hunter in the five Thumb Counties could read this before answering their survey.
John McIntosh to Michigan Bow Hunters Association
December 15 at 11:20 PM ·
...
Lots of discussion regarding APR's, both sides of the issue are dug in without any budging. Killing big ( or as the APR guys say "mature") bucks seems to be the driving force behind this movement. I've logged more than a few years in the woods, hunting many areas of the state, both public and private land.
Seeing or killing "mature" bucks is every bit about location and habitat. Mature bucks are harder to get chances at for the very reason they are mature- they adapt to the habitat that provides them the best in security, seclusion, and access to food sources. you can hunt large land parcels, or farms, and not see many if any simply because that particular habitat is not what they seek. Conversely, you could have a small parcel that regularly produces mature bucks simply because it has the right combination of cover, security, and food. Hunting pressure by various user groups can make or break a parcel.
This assumption that protecting certain age classes will somehow result in mature bucks running everywhere is laughable. I've hunted parcels with minimal pressure, that lack what mature deer seek, and rarely ever see a mature buck outside of the rut, and even then can be unpredictable. I've hunted parcels large and small, with the same observations. I've also seen small parcels with seemingly unreal numbers of more mature deer. Usually these are harder to access, or rarely if ever hunted.
Another thing I find amusing is how some of the APR proponents regularly discuss they only shoot deer that are 3.5 or 4.5 yrs of age minimum. You cannot tell the age of a deer simply by looking at it. You can get a good guess, but to accurately age a deer, you need a tooth sample, Its not uncommon for those guesstimating deers age to be way off. Assuming a basket 6 or 8 is only 1.5 when, after having it aged by a biologist, find it was much older, or vice versa.
Spikes that are 6-7 yrs old. Big heavy antlered bucks that are only 2.5 yrs old. Both of these scenarios are not at all uncommon.
I have a few questions for the APR crowd.
How will protecting a certain age class be accurately accomplished, when you cannot know for certain the age given that Antler points alone are not a given indicator of actual age?
Being that immature bucks are the most likely age class to disperse to other areas, how does protecting them help to limit the spread of CWD?
IF only mature deer are targeted, why is leaving only immature and small racked genetically inferior bucks to do the breeding a good thing?
Why would you only survey 2000 out of an estimated 60,000+ number of hunters in the 5 county region, when its been proven time and time again sample surveys are inaccurate, and can be easily skewed based on the dynamic of who is surveyed, and the wording of the survey?
Why, after being shot down TWICE in 3 county thumb APR initiatives, can you not take no for an answer?
Why do you feel its ok to force your ideal of deer "management on others. To tell an aging hunter that he can not shoot what could be his last deer of his life, simply because it doesn't meet your standard of acceptable?
Please tell me how someone hunting somewhere other than where you hunt affects your hunting by shooting something you would pass?
Why can you not opt for voluntary APR for yourself, where you hunt, without forcing it on the rest of us?
Why is it so bad to let hunters decide for themselves what to put their tag on if it doesn't interfere with your choice to do the same?
Why is it, throughout these discussions, you APR folks regularly ignore or dismiss the concerns of those opposed, and just stick strictly to your talking points like a broken record?
When did it become antler hunting instead of deer hunting?
Bucks have been hunted based on the 3" antler standard for decades. There is no shortage of "mature " bucks in MI, buck poles across the state prove this year in and year out. Finding, and killing these takes a combination of time investment in scouting and preparation, access to habitat that holds them, and some plain old luck. Luck can be increased by the first two items. Simply placing arbitrary point restrictions is not going to result in Booners behind every tree. It will result in losing more hunters. Those who will have had enough and throw in the towel.