My Theory

[jbrown]

With Michigan deer hunters and nrc/dnr..

The one and only surefire way to make any changes to the Lansing Cash Cow

In my opinion.

Break out the screws and glue. Get EVERYONE on the same page. Then keep them that way with glue and screws.

And EVERYONE agrees to not buy licenses..

Take away the cash cow and you will get the attention your seeking..

I don't see it happening. EVER.. unless desperate times forced it.

It would only take a yr or two of zero licenses bought. And the control would be back in the hands of the people it should be.. michigan sportsmen.

Its a far fetched idea I know.. but it sure would grab undivided attn if it could be done..


So long as the cash cow piles in. Not much will change

[daappleknocker]

jbrown, that's exactly what the "sportsmen" want, the woods to themselves. The main goal of QDM is to reduce the deer population and create a 1 to 1 doe to buck ratio. The MDNR has been working for this goal since about 2000. They are using the QDMA in Michigan to accomplish it. Hunter numbers, especially firearms, has been dropping for ten years. They do not care. They want the distinction of Michigan being a "destination" for trophy bucks.

I believe that if they, the MDNR and the NRC, even cared they would get both sides of this issue together and try to reach a compromise, but that will never happen. They have loaded up the three deer advisory teams with pro-restriction advocates to further the QDM agenda.

[daappleknocker]

Sorry guys, but I refuse to call myself a "sportsman". The term screams competition. I believe that is the underlying problem with deer hunting today. Taking the life of an animal should never be connected to the term "sport". Those pushing QDM and MAR's consider themselves so elite they begin to call themselves "sportsmen". I refuse to join their ranks.

[jbrown]

You want big antlers do as I do on occassion head to Kansas/Missouri/Iowa etc etc..heck even idaho has some goodn's.

I like small to medium stuff. They make better knife handles, bullet starters. Lol

Its still controlled by money, if the majority want to stay traditional. Then organize and shut the money off..

Would be a hard task but not impossible.. license sales cut by 2/3-3/4 would send a message.. and on top of it all QDMA guys won't make up for the total loss when in comes to merchants and the sale of goods..

I honestly believe if you don't show a finacial threat. Its going to be business as usual.. just my thoughts

[Dale Malusi]

" Get EVERYONE on the same page"
History has proven this to be impossible with deer hunters. When everyone is on the same page will be too late. The focus won't be on antlers, it will be on hunting altogether.
One problem is there is too much focus on antlers. Some hunters aren't deer hunters. They actually have threads on that MI "sportsman" site that they brag about who has passed on the biggest buck. Then they complain that the neighbor shot him.
Competitions, 700 clubs, who is the best taxidermist, the list goes on.
The goal of the elite antlerphile is not to make hunting better for all hunters, it is to make hunting better for the real deer hunter. And they are a persistent bunch.  Condescending, demeaning, rude, belligerent, overbearing, snide bunch they are.
How can you unite that? 

[daappleknocker]

Doehead, THEY are organized, WE are not. Average Joe, Non-Affiliated deer hunters like to bitch and moan about THEM but won't get off their asses to DO anything. I quit hunting for three years and TRIED to get others to do the same. Not ONE other hunter joined. I can only do MY part. You are right, hunters just want to hunt. But, as their choices are taken away the only thing they will do is complain on the internet. 250,000 hunters have voted with their pocketbook in the last ten years, they just quit hunting. jbrown seems to be under the false impression that the MDNR gives a I am an idiot for using that word, they don't. Millions of our habitat improvement dollars have gone to private landowners to improve private property under the QDM philosophy. Michigan hunters remain silent! Public land remains unimproved, Michigan hunters remain silent! Trust fund money is wasted through fraud and corruption, Michigan Hunters remain silent! Michigan Wildlife Council, nearly two million dollars are wasted on ineffective promotion of hunting, fishing and trapping, Michigan hunters, fishermen and trappers remain silent. Go Figure, that's why the system walks all ,over us!

[jbrown]

Dec 15, 2016 8:40:37 GMT -5 Dale Malusi said:

" Get EVERYONE on the same page"
History has proven this to be impossible with deer hunters. When everyone is on the same page will be too late. The focus won't be on antlers, it will be on hunting altogether.
One problem is there is too much focus on antlers. Some hunters aren't deer hunters. They actually have threads on that MI "sportsman" site that they brag about who has passed on the biggest buck. Then they complain that the neighbor shot him.
Competitions, 700 clubs, who is the best taxidermist, the list goes on.
The goal of the elite antlerphile is not to make hunting better for all hunters, it is to make hunting better for the real deer hunter. And they are a persistent bunch.  Condescending, demeaning, rude, belligerent, overbearing, snide bunch they are.
How can you unite that? 

my EVERYONE comment was in reference to "traditional" hunters..sorry for the confusion

[Dale Malusi]

Boycotting hunting doesn't solve a thing. It's giving up and in. It sends a message, but is it to the right people? The decline in hunters has been steady recently so the message has been given to the powers that be. What are they doing to fix it?
A screwed up license system, incomprehensible,unenforceable regulations, questionable surveys and other data collection methods, inept disease control, just to name a few.
Deer hunting is divided right now. You have the physical side of it and the political side of it. The physical side is very enjoyable for me.

The political side is disgusting. that's why we don't have much organization. Any time anyone even states an opinion against them, let alone try to organize... LOL. They have done some pretty low things trying to get what they want. And they just wont take no for an answer, now they want to bypass the established process?

To make everyone satisfied the DNR should just stop making all of their estimates and surveys public. After all this is just over percentages. Yup, percentages of estimates. Parts of guesses. I guess I could prove anything if I guessed the rest.

Statistics do not lie. Statisticians do.

[daappleknocker]

Doehead, that makes YOU part of the problem. I'll do it myself, won't be the first time.

[Dale Malusi]

Dec 15, 2016 12:48:35 GMT -5 daappleknocker said:

Doehead, that makes YOU part of the problem. I'll do it myself, won't be the first time.

HuH?

[jbrown]

83 counties in Michigan.. first thing I would attempt is get traditional folks in each county..

I can help I'm in Lapeer County..

We could start by designing flyers to post up at local gas stations/party store etc etc anything with a bulletin board..

Atleast get the word out about this website and the intentions of.. probably a good start..

Doehead you seem like a passionate guy when it comes to Michigan Deer..

If a "union" so to speak could be formed across Michigan a few guy's and a few counties at a time.

A voice might be formed. But it has to be a voice that blankets Michigan.

Not just a few guy's

[ridge]

Doehead is expressing the frustration and anger that many hunters feel about the DNR catering to a special interest group instead of managing the state's resources for all of its hunters and fishermen.

jbrown is right on the mark when he says that we need people from all over the state to work together to stop the restriction efforts.  However this has never happened in the past.  We can only hope that a way is found to accomplish this in the future.

daappleknocker is both a visionary and a pragmatist.  He understands that in a perfect world a monetary boycott would work and traditional hunters would come together to stop the present attack on the ordinary hunter and fisherman.  daappleknocker takes control of that which he can take immediate action. He has formed a personal boycott and he hopes that others will follow his model.  His writing is eloquent and it clearly describes the issues as they are. His personal actions are his to control and are those with which he can take immediate action.

I applaud the efforts of all my brothers and sisters in this struggle against forced extreme restrictions and manipulated results.

[daappleknocker]

I have run ads in the Woods-N-Waters News magazine in the past with few results. I have posted fliers in the U.P. and put many stickers on signs in fishing spots with few results. I have tried to have organizational meetings in the past with few results. We as a group are too far apart and fragmented to make an impact on the majority of Michigan's average Joe, non-affiliated hunters who remain apathetic to this MAR's issue. It is time to go to Lansing but most legislators want to hear from large groups with affluent and influential memberships and I am none of the above. 

[jbrown]

Instead of trying to organize Michigan as a whole.
We do it 1 county at a time..

And the attempts need to be a relentless onslaught.
It will turn into a very tiring effort.

But anything worth doing, is worth doing right.

You organize right here on this sight.. you assign a group to design flyers in a .pdf format something the other representatives in other counties can download and print..this way the message is consistent across the state

MAKE THIS SITE THE HUB.. you need a special access forum reps can get into to access flyers and such. So you can be assured its in the right hands..and telephone # can be accessed privately. And a host of other uses

If I'm overstepping boundaries here please here please inform

[ridge]

All ideas to stop the madness are welcome for consideration.

[jbrown]

In regards to the flyers. They should contain verifiable facts. With links on where to verify.

The first action is to talk with friends and relatives who may feel the same. And get them on board

And they get there friends etc etc.. it will be a lot harder doing this than saying how to get it done.
I can guarantee it..

But it has to start somewhere..