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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 1, 2015 21:23:23 GMT -5
This guy is a total bigot. An internet tough guy. Here is what he rudely interjected in a thread here in a try to hijack it;
You guys are all just a bunch of complainers stuck in the 70's. Get with the times guys. Times are changing weather you like it or not. I know it just kills you guys that you can not stop this momentum "We" have. Its not that big of a deal to pass up a spike horn or a 4 point. Put your big boy pants on a buck up. (pardon the pun). So glad to hear one of you passed up that button buck. Wow, that was tough for you I know. Just think of the meat you could have put in the freezer. All 25lbs of it. The younger generation whats to be part of the solution not part of the problem. This is for the future of deer hunting for our kids and Grand kids. That's what this is about. MAPRs for better deer and better deer hunting.
I say to you let em go an let em grow....Go back to your own website, nobody is going to pat your back here.
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Post by hartman756 on Dec 1, 2015 21:48:54 GMT -5
You would think those guys would get enough fighting from their own page. I cant believe how much they bash each other over there and they are all supposed to be on the same team  |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 1, 2015 21:53:57 GMT -5
It is a classic " do as I say, it will make your hunting better you I am an idiot for using that word."
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 21:58:00 GMT -5
What do you expect? When you post up BS attacking people who aren't even members here, how can you get mad when they respond. Maybe it's a sign that you've ran out of productive conversation? Just a thought.
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 22:17:06 GMT -5
It is a classic " do as I say, it will make your hunting better you I am an idiot for using that word." Nobody has called you that. I think a large number of people feel that it will make your hunting better if you give it a chance to. Saying that you don't have any APR legal bucks on camera in a non APR area is not a logical reason to be against them. |
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Post by Dale Malusi on Dec 1, 2015 22:30:01 GMT -5
It is a classic " do as I say, it will make your hunting better you I am an idiot for using that word." Nobody has called you that. I think a large number of people feel that it will make your hunting better if you give it a chance to. Saying that you don't have any APR legal bucks on camera in a non APR area is not a logical reason to be against them. You prove my point, I don't care what you THINK! Science trumps opinion. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 1, 2015 23:12:57 GMT -5
Nobody has called you that. I think a large number of people feel that it will make your hunting better if you give it a chance to. Saying that you don't have any APR legal bucks on camera in a non APR area is not a logical reason to be against them. You prove my point, I don't care what you THINK! Science trumps opinion. Yes, thankfully, it does. |
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Post by QDM MARS on Dec 2, 2015 0:46:56 GMT -5
"Not just because you have your answers
It shouldn't mean my views are seen in vain
An earthly bid for resurrection
Could never soothe the human pain".......
"No war of rights to battle angels
Will ever justify these ends
So recognise yourself in others
A generation makes amends".....
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 2, 2015 10:44:26 GMT -5
There seems to be a misconception of what the Let 'em go and Let 'em grow group stands for. It's irresponsible and misleading to take a few posts by a few members of the group and extrapolate that to the group as an entity. It is intentionally misleading the readers of this forum.
To those interested in what they stand for, I will simply follow along with recently set precedent, and cut and paste it........Again, if they are being attacked in an open forum, they can/should be allowed to respond in an open forum. Trying to present this as informational purposes only, and not in an attacking manner.
MICHIGAN DEER HUNTERS – let em go and let em go!
MISSION OBJECTIVES:
First and Foremost our mission is to gain support for State wide Antler Point Restrictions on both the Restricted and Un-restricted Combination buck tags. Per the DNR guidelines this would mean a 3 point on one side restriction in Zone 1 and 2, and a 4 point on one side restriction in Zone 3. The Restricted tag would remain 4 points on one side.
Our Group goal is 3 points on one side minimum on the regular tag, the restricted tag of course is 4 points on one side. By joining our ranks you are personally committing to harvest only bucks with at least 3 points on one side. Everybody has a different definition of a shooter so please respect that. Our goal is to make Michigan a Great state to hunt the Whitetail Deer for generations to come. This includes the commitment of individuals managing our resource to the best of their knowledge and abilities. Our mission also includes informing people about herd management, habitat management and trigger finger management. If we do not know the answer to a question we will use our resources to find the answer.
We will not tolerate any degrading of another hunters harvest under any circumstances as long as there is an attempt made to stay within our guidelines of a minimum of 3 points on one side. You will be permanently and immediately banned without warning if you do so.
Youth hunters are exempt in our minds until they are 17 years old. During this period we ask that the young hunters be educated and groomed to understand the importance of “Selective Harvest” and be educated in herd and habitat management.
We have a very wide range of members from the beginner to the seasoned veteran. Please take this into consideration and remember that no question (no matter how simple) is a dumb question. Part of being a knowledgeable hunter is reading the Rules and Regulations book from cover to cover prior to the season beginning. Before asking a rules or regs question, please consult the Rule book prior to asking. If you need clarification, then ask.
As we progress in management a very good rule to live by is only targeting bucks that are in the top 10% of the bucks that are known to be frequenting your hunting area. If that means you only target 2 or 3 animals then that’s what you do. If you live by this rule there will be no doubt if a buck is a shooter or not if he falls into this category.
Long Term Goals:
1. Protect young (mostly yearling) bucks.
2. Harvest ample numbers of does based on your area.
3. Manage the habitat within your hunting area to the best of your ability and capabilities.
4. Treat other hunters with respect.
5. Hunt ethically at all times.
6. Encourage other hunters to get on board with this movement and lead by example.
7. Get young people into hunting. Mentor a young hunter.
8. Let them go and Let them grow!
Together we can make Michigan a Great Whitetail State. A State that can challenge any Midwest state in the country.
Thank you for your commitments and support!
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Post by ridge on Dec 2, 2015 11:50:36 GMT -5
That philosophy/set of restrictions, will develop a herd that is less resilient to disease, predators, and to weather related crisis. Numbers could be depleted very fast and take generations to come back if ever. It is based on a set of suppositions that are just not true in Michigan and never will be. What they will do is drive many hunters out of the sport/activity and leave the special interest groups to have the playing field, so to speak, to themselves.
Those goals and sets of restrictions omit the realities of genetics, disease, road accidents, loss of hunting opportunities, subsequent weather losses, predator losses due to high predator numbers, the decreasing number of antlerless deer in many areas, and the large numbers of hunters in some areas. They are also based on the false idea that all young bucks will become large antlered bucks. As DR. JB calls them mature deer of ages 5 or older with their "potential" set of antlers. This completely omits the factors of available nutrition, genetics, winter losses, non-hunting losses, and disease. It is very misleading and wastes opportunities for hunting and for valuable venison that the vultures will get. It also increases the value of the large bucks to poachers which they already target in spite of the denials of the DNR.
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Post by daappleknocker on Dec 2, 2015 12:44:40 GMT -5
Fieldnfeathers,
I just have two questions that I would like to have answered from your group.
What is the definition of a "quality" buck according to the Let-em-go, Let-em-grow group? And...
What is the definition of a "trophy" buck according to your group?
Please do not say it is up to the individual member to define those words as that would be a cop out.
Thanks |
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Post by QDM MARS on Dec 2, 2015 13:35:04 GMT -5
Fieldnfeathers,
I just have two questions that I would like to have answered from your group.
What is the definition of a "quality" buck according to the Let-em-go, Let-em-grow group? And...
What is the definition of a "trophy" buck according to your group?
Please do not say it is up to the individual member to define those words as that would be a cop out.
Thanks Good questions Dappleknocker. And I would caution FF to answer carefully as I have hundreds of replies from the let em grow members with their views on these very questions ,and it ain't pretty ! Even the ADMINs fight among themselves and also with their members over what the answers are  |
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Post by QDM MARS on Dec 2, 2015 13:48:44 GMT -5
This section of the forum is open for any one to post . On the same note they do not afford the same to us on their site. They routinely bully , belittle and demean those of us that do not agree with them knowing those people(us) have no way to defend themselves against it ! And for the most part that is fine as they also do the same thing to each other and I really don't want to be a part of a group like that! In fact I routinely send people there way that ask me why they should not support the MARs movement . After reading on there they often get back with me and tell me they do not want to be associated with people that act like that and therefor neither do they want to be part of the MARs movement!
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 2, 2015 14:17:15 GMT -5
This section of the forum is open for any one to post . On the same note they do not afford the same to us on their site. They routinely bully , belittle and demean those of us that do not agree with them knowing those people(us) have no way to defend themselves against it ! And for the most part that is fine as they also do the same thing to each other and I really don't want to be a part of a group like that! In fact I routinely send people there way that ask me why they should not support the MARs movement . After reading on there they often get back with me and tell me they do not want to be associated with people that act like that and therefor neither do they want to be part of the MARs movement! That's completely incorrect. What is not tolerated is personal attacks towards individuals of the group. That goes for any "member" of the group, nobody is singled out in that regard. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 2, 2015 14:19:45 GMT -5
That philosophy/set of restrictions, will develop a herd that is less resilient to disease, predators, and to weather related crisis. Numbers could be depleted very fast and take generations to come back if ever. It is based on a set of suppositions that are just not true in Michigan and never will be. What they will do is drive many hunters out of the sport/activity and leave the special interest groups to have the playing field, so to speak, to themselves. Those goals and sets of restrictions omit the realities of genetics, disease, road accidents, loss of hunting opportunities, subsequent weather losses, predator losses due to high predator numbers, the decreasing number of antlerless deer in many areas, and the large numbers of hunters in some areas. They are also based on the false idea that all young bucks will become large antlered bucks. As DR. JB calls them mature deer of ages 5 or older with their "potential" set of antlers. This completely omits the factors of available nutrition, genetics, winter losses, non-hunting losses, and disease. It is very misleading and wastes opportunities for hunting and for valuable venison that the vultures will get. It also increases the value of the large bucks to poachers which they already target in spite of the denials of the DNR. Hogwash. They omit no such thing. If that's the case, you should just end all deer hunting and let nature take its course. That's how ridiculous it sounds. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 2, 2015 14:23:26 GMT -5
Fieldnfeathers,
I just have two questions that I would like to have answered from your group.
What is the definition of a "quality" buck according to the Let-em-go, Let-em-grow group? And...
What is the definition of a "trophy" buck according to your group?
Please do not say it is up to the individual member to define those words as that would be a cop out.
Thanks Without reverting to strawmen, please point out the term "quality" and "trophy" in the aforementioned mission statement. Thanks. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 2, 2015 14:26:59 GMT -5
Fieldnfeathers,
I just have two questions that I would like to have answered from your group.
What is the definition of a "quality" buck according to the Let-em-go, Let-em-grow group? And...
What is the definition of a "trophy" buck according to your group?
Please do not say it is up to the individual member to define those words as that would be a cop out.
Thanks Good questions Dappleknocker. And I would caution FF to answer carefully as I have hundreds of replies from the let em grow members with their views on these very questions ,and it ain't pretty ! Even the ADMINs fight among themselves and also with their members over what the answers are Complete drivel. The admins/moderators have zero tolerance for that behavior. It goes against their mission statement and is dealt with in as timely fashion as possible. |
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Post by daappleknocker on Dec 2, 2015 15:07:57 GMT -5
Strawmen? I see that term used often on these social media sites and yet fail to understand it's meaning. My questions were meant to be serious. If you won't or can't answer them just say so.
Your "mission statement" is valid. I agree with most of it. Where we have a disagreement is when your quest for antler point restrictions become mandatory instead of hunter choice. I believe in education instead of regulation. I have practiced self imposed APR's for thirty years but personally think it would be unethical to impose my standards on any other hunter.
What many advocates of mandatory restrictions fail to realize is that although educating hunters on the advantages of APR's may take longer, education works. But, it takes patience and character to go this route. LEG-LEG worked for the U.P. Sportsman's and the U.P. White-tails in the early 90's thru 2007. The yearling harvest was under 50% before the NRC mandated hunters choice in 2008. But that was not good enough for the advocates of mandatory regulation changes which have devastated deer hunting in the U.P. Deer populations have plummeted as well as hunter numbers. Although harvested deer numbers have dropped significantly, we hear the same advocates as well as MDNR spokespersons say that the few harvested deer are "quality" animals, thus the reason for my question.
I'm sorry that you can not be honest with an answer to my questions. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 2, 2015 16:06:59 GMT -5
Strawmen? I see that term used often on these social media sites and yet fail to understand it's meaning. My questions were meant to be serious. If you won't or can't answer them just say so.
Your "mission statement" is valid. I agree with most of it. Where we have a disagreement is when your quest for antler point restrictions become mandatory instead of hunter choice. I believe in education instead of regulation. I have practiced self imposed APR's for thirty years but personally think it would be unethical to impose my standards on any other hunter.
What many advocates of mandatory restrictions fail to realize is that although educating hunters on the advantages of APR's may take longer, education works. But, it takes patience and character to go this route. LEG-LEG worked for the U.P. Sportsman's and the U.P. White-tails in the early 90's thru 2007. The yearling harvest was under 50% before the NRC mandated hunters choice in 2008. But that was not good enough for the advocates of mandatory regulation changes which have devastated deer hunting in the U.P. Deer populations have plummeted as well as hunter numbers. Although harvested deer numbers have dropped significantly, we hear the same advocates as well as MDNR spokespersons say that the few harvested deer are "quality" animals, thus the reason for my question.
I'm sorry that you can not be honest with an answer to my questions. Curtis, I have no problems being honest with you or anyone. The words quality or trophy do not exist in the mission statement, yet that's what you asked me. Other social media is not the subject of this thread, Let them go - Let them grow is. I can, however, answer your question based solely on my belief. I am not an official spokesman for Let them go - Let them grow, so you'll have to ask them. With that said....... Quality to me is not based solely in antlers harvested, it's based on the entire hunting experience as a whole. We've had a mandatory restriction where I hunt for almost 26 years. It started as a 3 on one side restriction, but has since moved to a 4 on one side and spread restriction for the past 15 years. Any hunter I've brought to our property, and it's been many, were absolutely blown away at the quality hunting and bucks we had by having a simple restriction. Hunters that hunt this property are witnessing first hand what a true rut of mature whitetail deer is. Trophies are trophies. They can vary from person to person. I view a trophy as a harvested buck that is in the top 10% of what my property, or any property, has to offer. |
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Post by daappleknocker on Dec 2, 2015 17:27:57 GMT -5
Fieldnfeathers
Thanks for the honest and heartfelt answer. That is what I was asking for. I assume your mandatory APR is an imposed restriction on private property to which have no objection to. As nearly 88% of deer harvested in Michigan last year were on private property, I totally support self or group restrictions, and even co-ops on private lands. But what I do object too, is when advocates of MANDATORY restrictions try to mandate APR's by regulation manipulation on their neighbors to protect what they falsely believe are their deer. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 2, 2015 18:18:08 GMT -5
Fieldnfeathers
Thanks for the honest and heartfelt answer. That is what I was asking for. I assume your mandatory APR is an imposed restriction on private property to which have no objection to. As nearly 88% of deer harvested in Michigan last year were on private property, I totally support self or group restrictions, and even co-ops on private lands. But what I do object too, is when advocates of MANDATORY restrictions try to mandate APR's by regulation manipulation on their neighbors to protect what they falsely believe are their deer. Nobody and everybody owns the deer. Personally, I've never felt that anyone is shooting my deer. You and I are simply disagreeing on the benefit that a MAPR will have on deer hunting in Michigan as a whole. I've always been truthful in that I don't need an APR, because I dont. I am, however, in support of them statewide due to witnessing first hand how they improve hunting. I think most people are just scared of the term mandatory. It is what it is, a simple restriction much like any other hunting regulations/rules are. The difference here is that the intended purpose is an improved deer hunting experience. |
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Post by daappleknocker on Dec 2, 2015 19:02:34 GMT -5
And therein lies the difference between you and me, I don't feel the need to improve MY hunting experience by influencing or redefining the hunting experience of someone else. You are quite arrogant in assuming that you know what will improve someone else's deer harvesting experience. |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 2, 2015 19:44:05 GMT -5
And therein lies the difference between you and me, I don't feel the need to improve MY hunting experience by influencing or redefining the hunting experience of someone else. You are quite arrogant in assuming that you know what will improve someone else's deer harvesting experience. And that's your opinion. MY hunting will not change regardless of what happens with APR's elsewhere. I doubt you would find anyone in this state that, after hunting my property or others like it, would choose to hunt elsewhere not under an APR. You can call it arrogant if you wish. I'll refrain from the name calling. |
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Post by ridge on Dec 2, 2015 22:49:58 GMT -5
That philosophy/set of restrictions, will develop a herd that is less resilient to disease, predators, and to weather related crisis. Numbers could be depleted very fast and take generations to come back if ever. It is based on a set of suppositions that are just not true in Michigan and never will be. What they will do is drive many hunters out of the sport/activity and leave the special interest groups to have the playing field, so to speak, to themselves. Those goals and sets of restrictions omit the realities of genetics, disease, road accidents, loss of hunting opportunities, subsequent weather losses, predator losses due to high predator numbers, the decreasing number of antlerless deer in many areas, and the large numbers of hunters in some areas. They are also based on the false idea that all young bucks will become large antlered bucks. As DR. JB calls them mature deer of ages 5 or older with their "potential" set of antlers. This completely omits the factors of available nutrition, genetics, winter losses, non-hunting losses, and disease. It is very misleading and wastes opportunities for hunting and for valuable venison that the vultures will get. It also increases the value of the large bucks to poachers which they already target in spite of the denials of the DNR. Hogwash. They omit no such thing. If that's the case, you should just end all deer hunting and let nature take its course. That's how ridiculous it sounds. That's how MAPRs sound to me-ridiculous! A herd that is low on does is a herd that can not adjust to changing circumstances very easily. |
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Post by let em grow on Dec 2, 2015 23:17:58 GMT -5
I love it that you guys can call me a bigot and an internet tough guy for anything that I have said in any forum at any time. You guys are ridiculous. Everyone of you is a arm chair manager that thinks they know everything. You are terrified of change and hold onto the old ways of doing business and refuse to try something new. You are delusional (refuse to accept something despite strong evidence against it) and refuse to accept the fact that change is desperately needed in this state and you are making me out to be the bad guy because I am the one advocating for change. I guess if I need to be the brunt of your attacks then so be it. I will stay on coarse and continue to fight for change that will take this state to the next level. Your anti apr rhetoric is just that, rhetoric and false statements. Where is your data that backs up your claims of anything? Oh wait, You have none. We have mountains of data that supports what we know to be effective. APRs work and its time you guys realize that I am not the big bad wolf trying to blow down your little fort over here. I am trying make this state a better place to hunt for our kids, our Grand Kids and their kids. Mean while you guys just want to sit back and whack the crap out of the spike horns and 4 points because "NOBODY IS GONA TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CANT SHOOT."
As far as the fighting in our group goes, well we have 7,200 members and are growing daily, there is bound to be some disagreements from time to time. Have a ball over here with your tiny little group of guys that refuse to accept reality.
If your enemy is talking about you then that is a sign that they fear you. So I am glad to see that you fear us. Change is coming boys, change is coming.
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Post by QDM MARS on Dec 2, 2015 23:45:50 GMT -5
I love it that you guys can call me a bigot and an internet tough guy for anything that I have said in any forum at any time. You guys are ridiculous. Everyone of you is a arm chair manager that thinks they know everything. You are terrified of change and hold onto the old ways of doing business and refuse to try something new. You are delusional (refuse to accept something despite strong evidence against it) and refuse to accept the fact that change is desperately needed in this state and you are making me out to be the bad guy because I am the one advocating for change. I guess if I need to be the brunt of your attacks then so be it. I will stay on coarse and continue to fight for change that will take this state to the next level. Your anti apr rhetoric is just that, rhetoric and false statements. Where is your data that backs up your claims of anything? Oh wait, You have none. We have mountains of data that supports what we know to be effective. APRs work and its time you guys realize that I am not the big bad wolf trying to blow down your little fort over here. I am trying make this state a better place to hunt for our kids, our Grand Kids and their kids. Mean while you guys just want to sit back and whack the crap out of the spike horns and 4 points because "NOBODY IS GONA TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CANT SHOOT." As far as the fighting in our group goes, well we have 7,200 members and are growing daily, there is bound to be some disagreements from time to time. Have a ball over here with your tiny little group of guys that refuse to accept reality. If your enemy is talking about you then that is a sign that they fear you. So I am glad to see that you fear us. Change is coming boys, change is coming.
And yet you are over here trying to raise issues ! There is data from every state that has ever tried to implement MARs showing that they didn't work ....I know............. you have one tiny DMU here in Michigan with fixed data called Leelanau that "PROVES" all those other states wrong . What about those other DMUs in Michigan where hunters rejected MARs after having to hunt under them???
Bound to be some disagreements in your group? 
I got a lot worse I can post to show it is a little more than disagreements. How about I post some of the physical threats your members have made against others for shooting 2.5 year olds? ? Yah I am prepared and armed to the teeth to show what type of people are drawn to your cause. Expect to see it popping up all over social media ...............Just remember you were the one that had to push this issue!!!!! |
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Post by QDM MARS on Dec 3, 2015 0:02:35 GMT -5
Here is a little teaser. DISCLAIMER very nasty language And that is just a small sample from your let em go and let em grow page I got several hundreds more from start to end . I call that pretty pathetic for a group of people calling themselves hunters!
Remember you are the one that had to bring this all up from your page with your claims of a "little disagreement " because your page is so popular. You can have your popularity . I don't care to have that attitude around me or my family !
No one here fears you or your cause . It is more pitifull than anything else ! |
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Post by fieldnfeathers on Dec 3, 2015 0:29:07 GMT -5
Again, with over 7000 members, there is bound to be posts like that. They are not allowed, are removed, and the member removed from the group as expediently as possible. They in no way represent the group as a whole.
To give you an idea of how hard it is to control these posts, the Let them grow and Let them grow page has had over 300 posts in the last 24 hours, and that's not including what has been removed. This forum has had ~28, 12 of which are mine.
I adminstrate/moderate a fairly large waterfowl forum. Controlling these posts, and getting them removed in a timely matter is not as easy as some of you think. Try doing it on a forum with 30,000 plus members, and that's with language filters and auto report to help flag them.
As far as threatening to bring up these statements as some sort of stance/validation of your position, I recommend you think twice.
1. Doing so will only come across as your position being too weak to stand on its own merits.
2. Considering the multitudes of posts by some of your supporters attacking others, your position will come off as hypocritical and, again, weak on its merits.
Furthermore, Let them go and Let them grow isn't here to create issues or cause problems. They were here to respond to blatant and unwarranted attacks against them. Don't want a response? Don't post it. Seems pretty simple.
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Post by Dale Malusi on Feb 26, 2017 21:47:29 GMT -5
Again, with over 7000 members,
Furthermore, Let them go and Let them grow isn't here to create issues or cause problems. They were here to respond to blatant and unwarranted attacks against them. Don't want a response? Don't post it. Seems pretty simple.
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Post by jbrown on Mar 4, 2017 20:15:05 GMT -5
Man tries to conteol nature.. usually means complete and utter disaster... nature controls itself
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